How to spot counterfeits

[TJCoro]

:eek:Here's a little something that might interest fans of the Siglo VI (http://forums.cigaraficionado.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&f=7666095&m=764102285&r=454108316#454108316)



:bandit: Names TJ,TJCoro, at your service

[larrysputnik]

Good post. I often find that an easy way to tell is by looking to see if worms are crawling out of it too. But either way it's nice to know how to spot the fakes in different ways I guess. :41:

[Stevieboy]

Good post. I often find that an easy way to tell is by looking to see if worms are crawling out of it too. But either way it's nice to know how to spot the fakes in different ways I guess. :41:

My neighbour phoned me yesterday to say one of his female work colleagues had been given a box of Espis nd others for a wedding gift (v. strange gift for a non-smoker!) and would I be interested in buying them. I was instantly supicious when he mentioned the built in humidifier....but, as you'd imagine, I was a tad tumescent at the prospect of cheap cigars but then he came round and I saw the dreaded glass lid :41: I've never seen such a pile of shite. Even my wife was laughing. The bands were awful, no two bands seemed to be of the same print quality and were stuck on at differing heights. The cigars themselves were brick hard with what appeared to be thread-like vegetal sprouting parts coming of some of the ends...like when a potato has gone bad and starts to re-grow. :biggrin1:

Dreadful

The other cigars turned out to be King Edwards....a very disappointing night but at least I've handled a glass-top and it's genuine glass as well, not perspex as I thought it would be

[whisky77]

Wash your mouth out Stevieboy, perspex! you can`t beat quality.:biggrin1:

[TJCoro]

Good post. I often find that an easy way to tell is by looking to see if worms are crawling out of it too. But either way it's nice to know how to spot the fakes in different ways I guess. :41:

:yo:Right. Any edge we can gain on spotting counterfeit puros, especially Cohibas, is nice to have in your puro tool box, expecially when paying as much as $600US for a box of VIs as many of the suckers....errrrr, fine gentlemen on the forum do, no doubt.:rolleyes:

BTW - senor Whiskey, tell your friend I can get as many glass-top habana puros as he needs. They make great wedding gifts for the occasional smoker!!!

I don't know why, but there seems to be an unlimited quantity of these babies near my beloved State of Mind, Mexico. :849:

:bandit: Names TJ,TJCoro, and I'm always looking for an edge on spotting Fauxhibas!:sad:

[nicwing]

[quote=Stevieboy;13674] I was a tad tumescent .....

F.O.M C.I.W.G.S.M

[TJCoro]

[quote=Stevieboy;13674] I was a tad tumescent .....

F.O.M C.I.W.G.S.M

UKCF Dictionary, please!

:bandit:

[Deano]

I'll add some pics regarding the Cohiba Robusto fakes I have compared to the real thing. I tell you what, it's hard work seeing the differences - if any.

[nicwing]

[quote=nicwing;13712]

UKCF Dictionary, please!

:bandit:

Fell Off My Chair I Was Giggling So Much , but I would have thought that was bleedin' obvious!

[nicwing]

I'll add some pics regarding the Cohiba Robusto fakes I have compared to the real thing. I tell you what, it's hard work seeing the differences - if any.

Please only post the originals of the young lady getting down to it. We've seen enough pictures of the Big Man to last a lifetime!

[Stevieboy]

Please only post the originals of the young lady getting down to it. We've seen enough pictures of the Big Man to last a lifetime!

F.O.M C.I.W.G.S.M :biggrin1::biggrin1:

[TJCoro]

I'll add some pics regarding the Cohiba Robusto fakes I have compared to the real thing. I tell you what, it's hard work seeing the differences - if any.


Leave it to senor Deano to bring it down a notch. He's sooooo serious.:damnmate:

Wasn't he the one who wore a coat and tie to the walk?. WAZUPWITDAT???:pound:

:bandit: I'm TJ, TJCoro Damn it!

[TJCoro]

:nerd: More useful information for the Habana aficionado. Below in the old warranty seal on the left and new seal on the right as seen under a UV black light :hippie:

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9df38b3127ccec673633983cb00000050O00AYs27li0aNW QPbz4Y/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

:bandit: Names TJ, TJCoro, at you service.

:juggle:

[TJCoro]

:nerd: What do you think, muchachos?

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9df03b3127ccec678ff2c170e00000040O00AYs27li0aNW QPbz4Y/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9df03b3127ccec679259b379800000040O00AYs27li0aNW QPbz4Y/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/


:bandit:


:juggle:

[Ryan]

:nerd: What do you think, muchachos?



There was a RyJ Petit Piramide EL released in 2005 but those look too long, they look like regular piramide length.
Anything over 5", I'd say fake.

[TJCoro]

There was a RyJ Petit Piramide EL released in 2005 but those look too long, they look like regular piramide length.
Anything over 5", I'd say fake.


They're a bit bigger than the RyJ EL 05 by several inches ( I think Mr. Ryan is on to something!)... over 7 inches and in the perfecto format. Extremely beautiful and oily, as you can see.

Senor Ryan sez fake! :rolleyes:

How about the rest of you Habana aficionados - real or fake? :cool:

:bandit:


:juggle:

[Ramon]

How about the rest of you Habana aficionados - real or fake?

Sorry, fakes.

Some useful info on the new seals here http://www.habanos.com/article.aspx?aid=330

[whisky77]

The labels are all wrong TJ,when compared to the original and genuine cigar.Rodriguez should not be on the band at all, it should be the 1875 date.

50RG and 5 inches.

Sorry TJ.

[Ramon]

The labels are all wrong TJ,when compared to the original and genuine cigar.Rodriguez should not be on the band at all, it should be the 1845 date.


Strangely the 2005 RyJ PP had the new style band, then they went back to the old style for later EL's.

[whisky77]

Not sure why this happened Ramon.I personally think Habanos like to offer different variations for release to gauge feedback.IMO it often confuses the consumer, especially those who are not anoraks like ourselves (no offence intended).

A number of Vitolas have been released as EL and then been re-released a few years later.No idea what the thinking is behind this at all.:confused:

Those ELs that TJ has are definately not right though.

[goldencigars]

:nerd: What do you think, muchachos?

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9df03b3127ccec678ff2c170e00000040O00AYs27li0aNW QPbz4Y/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9df03b3127ccec679259b379800000040O00AYs27li0aNW QPbz4Y/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/


:bandit:


:juggle:

Fakes.

Sometimes it is really difficult to know,if a cigars is fake,I'm not talking about a cristal top boxes,or the years of LE's that they don't exsist..etc..

Also the cedar boxes,seals stamps,rings,cigar size,etc...can be real,but the cigars are fake.
For me a cigar is the only one thing that you can be sure,that it is fake or legit.
The smell,the taste,combuction,ash structure,ash color,triple cap.

I have had some bad experience too,and I improved my skills.

[TJCoro]

The labels are all wrong TJ,when compared to the original and genuine cigar.Rodriguez should not be on the band at all, it should be the 1875 date.

50RG and 5 inches.

Sorry TJ.

:shocked:You make a very good point there Wisk, a very good point, indeed. The band on the EL in my pic is not the same as the one in your pic. :dontknow:

:hmmmm:Still, I've seen both bands on R&Js currently produced, e.g., the Belicosos and the Short Churchill. So what gives...what does this mean????:vollkommenauf:

Perhaps they are both authentic? Could this possibly be? :eyebrows:

:nerd: How about the fact that both are from the same year??? :doh: Does this mean anything to anybody? :stupido2:

:bandit: Names TJ, TJCoro, and senors Wisky:spy: and Ramon :spy: are on the case :41:

[cohibaIV]

Hmmmmm Something dodgy with the EL lable when I look at it, but still not sure??

[TJCoro]

Fakes.

Sometimes it is really difficult to know,if a cigars is fake,I'm not talking about a cristal top boxes,or the years of LE's that they don't exsist..etc..

Also the cedar boxes,seals stamps,rings,cigar size,etc...can be real,but the cigars are fake.
For me a cigar is the only one thing that you can be sure,that it is fake or legit.
The smell,the taste,combuction,ash structure,ash color,triple cap.

I have had some bad experience too,and I improved my skills.

:nerd: All very good points and solid information, especially for those just entering the wild and wonderful world of fine Habana puros. :849:

But what was it, exactly, that lead you to the conclude that my big, fat and glorious perfectos are fakes? :hmmmm:

:bandit: Names TJ, TJCoro, and senor GoldenCigars speaks wisely.

[goldencigars]

:nerd: All very good points and solid information, especially for those just entering the wild and wonderful world of fine Habana puros. :849:

But what was it, exactly, that lead you to the conclude that my big, fat and glorious perfectos are fakes? :hmmmm:

:bandit: Names TJ, TJCoro, and senor GoldenCigars speaks wisely.

for the wrong size ,or perhaps you put tha rings?to confuse me?
the Romeo petit piramides LE 2005 has different size

[TJCoro]

for the wrong size ,or perhaps you put tha rings?to confuse me?
the Romeo petit piramides LE 2005 has different size

Spot On, senor Goldencigars...you are the golden boy and know your fine Habana puros.

It is the wrong size. And each mfg'er approved to an Els during a particular year is authorized to make only on vitola - not two. :41:

These big boys were passed out as gifts during a national broadcasters conference, which is how I received them. I knew they were counterfeits when I received them but did not say anything. Why spoil the fun. Besides, I'm told they smoke and taste pretty darn good. I just added 'em to my ever expending collection of fakes. :biggrin1:

Well done, mates! No one was fooled by these imposters! :41:

:bandit:

[yankeefan]

it is unbelieviable what people will do to peddle off habanos:mad: been smoking about 8 yrs now and i,am more then certain my first few purchases were fakes.i.am a bit more seasoned now after some research:smile: but i hope to learn even more from you guys here:hail:

[TJCoro]

it is unbelieviable what people will do to peddle off habanos:mad: been smoking about 8 yrs now and i,am more then certain my first few purchases were fakes.i.am a bit more seasoned now after some research:smile: but i hope to learn even more from you guys here:hail:


Well said, senor Yankeefan, and welcome to the circus! :hello:

:hmmmm:As you may have noticed, we have a vast array of knowledge and experience here. But no matter the how long someone's been smoking fine stogies and Hananas or their level of "expertise," I think you will find that we all learn from one another from time to time in a fun and, dare I say it, thoughtful way. :thumb:

:bandit: Names TJ, TJCoro, and I always learn something new for the many fine folk at the UKCF!:41:


:juggle: For example, I learned how to juggle my balls here!

[yankeefan]

thanks tj good to know you learned how to juggle your balls here as well. i knew this place was informative!:smoke:

[larrysputnik]

Spot On, senor Goldencigars...you are the golden boy and know your fine Habana puros.

It is the wrong size. And each mfg'er approved to an Els during a particular year is authorized to make only on vitola - not two. :41:

These big boys were passed out as gifts during a national broadcasters conference, which is how I received them. I knew they were counterfeits when I received them but did not say anything. Why spoil the fun. Besides, I'm told they smoke and taste pretty darn good. I just added 'em to my ever expending collection of fakes. :biggrin1:

Well done, mates! No one was fooled by these imposters! :41:

:bandit:

It's hard not saying anything when you are given fakes, isn't it? I have suffered through almost an entire box of fakes because I don't know how to tell my buddy that his father-in-law gave him fake CCs. Ugh. You're lucky you didn't have to smoke these things, I'm sure. :(

[larrysputnik]

Cut one of those suckers open and see what it is that everyone at the convention was puffing on.

If you find worms, make sure they aren't covered in fur. :eek:

[Stevieboy]

TJ's brother BJ suggested I add the fakes from earlier today to this section

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3577/3510533304_23c4bc1194_o.jpg

The flaws on this one are glaring to anyone who has ever bought a genuine box of CCs.


The chevron would be on the varnished box
The seal would be on the cardboard box the varnished box comes in and not in the box (or on the varnished box!)
The cedar insert has a straight cut rather than a half-moon notch
The colour grading of the cigars looks all wrong ie from left to right they start dark, get lighter then get dark again.

[Stevieboy]

Whisky spotted the first flaw ie the seal is poorly positioned, the shield on the seal should be bi-sected by the edge of the box -half the seal on the top of the box, half on the front. The other less obvious flaw is the fact that the seal is actually on the varnished box itself. AFAIK all varnished boxes are sold inside a cardboard outer box which has the seal on it. Examples are Partagas 898, La Gloria Cubana Medaille D'or #1, Montecristo Serie D 2005 LE. Habanos being Habanos, you can bet your arse there will be exceptions...:p

http://i.ebayimg.com/11/%21BN25isw%212k%7E$%28KGrHgoH-DgEjlLl1CLoBJrw%21OmuiQ%7E%7E_35.JPG

[Ramon]

Both my boxes of Esplendidos, old and new style, have the seal on the box, and of course the Siglo series SLB's have the seal on the box as well. The seal is of course in the wrong position on that box.

As you say Steve, Habanos being Habanos there's always exceptions :smile:

[Stevieboy]

Both my boxes of Esplendidos, old and new style, have the seal on the box, and of course the Siglo series SLB's have the seal on the box as well. The seal is of course in the wrong position on that box.

As you say Steve, Habanos being Habanos there's always exceptions :smile:

Christ!! How are we the consumer supposed to know what's what with Habanos! My box of Esplendidos has no seal on it, my Siglo VI (25 and 10 box) has it on the left and my Lanceros doesn't have one . These were all sourced from Gesto which as you know Ramon have impeccable credentials !?!?!?!

If there's no standard then counterfeiters can have a field day :eviltongue:

[Stevieboy]

AFAIK all varnished boxes are sold inside a cardboard outer box which has the seal on it.



Having just looked at my Cohiba and Trinidad boxes, this is clearly a load of bollox. The Trinis have seals as do some of the Cohibas. Sorry for mis-leading

[Stevieboy]

I just received a PM from CJ who is TJ and BJ's sister (complicated I know).
She's translating for BJ who is conduit to TJ (still with me?)...TJ asked that I post more images of fakery. These are beauties:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3413/3446173738_967c4a0db3_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3412/3445353943_c83bdb3f2e_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3386/3446174880_13bd88dfab_b.jpg

[larrysputnik]

The glass top is the first sign, and I can easily spot the problem with the white checkers being too close to the top of the gold rectangle, but what is the last picture a sign of?

[Stevieboy]

but what is the last picture a sign of?

I think it's because it's so worn and wonky looking!?!?:confused:

[Ryan]

The glass top is the first sign, and I can easily spot the problem with the white checkers being too close to the top of the gold rectangle, but what is the last picture a sign of?

That's a rubbish looking warranty seal, very worn and not on straight.
The coat of arms on the seal is not aligned with the edge of the box.
Serial numbers beginning with a "D", such as on that box, have not been used since 2003.

Serial numbers can be useful for verifying boxes, especially the other way round, that is, when a box with an older date stamp, eg. 2000 or 2001, has a newer serial number such as "H" or "I".

[ACMCC]

Wrong positions for both stickers wrong colour for ink on crest seal, too many rows of squares on upper band should be 4 (I think!) plus all the above posts, it not easy on certain things as EL's are being counterfeited before wide release (so I've read) a little info leaking out from the factories perhaps!!..

[ACMCC]

sorry, positions might be ok, not had these yet so couldn't be too sure.... the quality of the printing overall is poor though.. :confused:

[Stevieboy]

The biggest error with these piramides is that they don't exist as an LE at all. The LEs for 2009 have been decided and the Cohiba Piramide isn't one of them. The counterfeiters must think we're morons. I daresay a lot of tourists will be taken in with them esp. if they don't know much about cigars and they're bringing them back as gifts...poor buggers :frown:

[ACMCC]

sorry ...four squares for the old band, five for the new, a common and easy to spot fault is the type face for the c in cuba, as below:


i'll have to learn how to cut and paste pics in...lol :confused:

[ACMCC]

it worked.....lol

A little more info....

A hidden UV Image is located centrally and above the serial No. not visible to the naked eye, (1999 on) not tried this yet...gotta find a UV bulb, of a form of the sheild

There,s also some micro printing, not visIble to the naked eye above the large Republica de Cuba which says:

SELLODEGARANTIAREPUBLICADECUBASELLODEGARANTIAREPUB LICADECUBASELLO....

this allso runs across the bottom of ParaTabacos torcidos y picadura.

hope this is useful. :smoke:

[Ramon]

gotta find a UV bulb

Get the CSI season 8 part 1 DVD box set and there's a UV pen-torch inside :biggrin1:

[Alex]

Get the CSI season 8 part 1 DVD box set and there's a UV pen-torch inside :biggrin1:


Or buy one of these http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Ultra-Violet-UV-LED-Light-Keychain-Torch-IN-UK_W0QQitemZ290315736524QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Spor tsLeisure_Camping_LightsLanternsTorches?hash=item2 90315736524&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1688|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A13 18|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Ultra-Violet-UV-LED-Light-Keychain-Torch-IN-UK_W0QQitemZ290315736524QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Spor tsLeisure_Camping_LightsLanternsTorches?hash=item2 90315736524&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1688%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C 240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50)

[ACMCC]

UV pen on its way...lol, cheers Alex. :biggrin1:

[Alex]

Just ordered one myself :biggrin1:

[ACMCC]

As soon as it arrives I'll have a go at taking a pic and post...now will the camera take UV? :rolleyes:

[whisky77]

The biggest error with these piramides is that they don't exist as an LE at all. The LEs for 2009 have been decided and the Cohiba Piramide isn't one of them. The counterfeiters must think we're morons. I daresay a lot of tourists will be taken in with them esp. if they don't know much about cigars and they're bringing them back as gifts...poor buggers :frown:

I was in Nassau in 2000 and I was offered "genuine" Cohiba piramids.All the tourists were buying these things up like crazy and all I could do was watch.
I told the girl in the shop they were fake and she said all their cigars were genuine.

I thought "bollocks to you all" and was subsequently dragged from the shop kicking and screaming like a demented cigar anorak by the missus, before I caused a scene.:der:

[Stevieboy]

I was in Nassau in 2000 and I was offered "genuine" Cohiba piramids.All the tourists were buying these things up like crazy and all I could do was watch.
I told the girl in the shop they were fake and she said all their cigars were genuine.

I thought "bollocks to you all" and was subsequently dragged from the shop kicking and screaming like a demented cigar anorak by the missus, before I caused a scene.:der:

LOL!! In 2000????? Brilliant....Glass-topped?

[daverave999]

Tonight I smoked one of the cigars given to me for Christmas that started this whole journey.

It was bought in Mexico and given to me in cellophane. Sorry about the pictures but my camera is at my girlfriend's flat.

Measurements were 155 mm by what appeared to be 44 or 46 ring gauge (spot the 'deliberate' mistake). It was actually really well rolled. Slightly more filled by the band. Very good burn with the ash reaching nearly two inches before it fell the first time. Good draw too. Band looked like the 2003-2006 band on cubancigarwebsite.com (not embossed; same colour).

I had stored this at 70% RH.

Not having smoked a Monte 2 before I was unable to compare. It was similar to the Diplo 2 I've smoked for the first third, but then all serious taste seemed to peter out. Were it not for where it was bought, the cellophane and the ring gauge, I could have well believed I'd just got a bad stick or Monte 2's were not to my taste.
http://www.ukcigarforums.com/picture.php?albumid=56&pictureid=453

http://www.ukcigarforums.com/picture.php?albumid=56&pictureid=452

http://www.ukcigarforums.com/picture.php?albumid=56&pictureid=451

http://www.ukcigarforums.com/picture.php?albumid=56&pictureid=450

[TJCoro]

Senor Dave,

Hello, my name is :shocked: BJ, BJCoro, and I sometimes post for :bandit: TJ,

At first glance, the puro looks pretty good:smile:, actually, except for the last picture of the band :dontknow:(I will compare it to some of my monty's later). And the cellephane is a problem:(. But based on your pictures alone, I don't immediatly spot a problem.:41:

Please sir, tell us where you bought it. It is possible, but highly risky, to buy authentic :849:Habanas in Mexico.

I am :shocked: BJ, BJCoro, and that's my snap opinion.

[daverave999]

I'll find out where he bought it, but the ring gauge being that far off is a major sign no?

[TJCoro]

I'll find out where he bought it, but the ring gauge being that far off is a major sign no?


Yeah...that could be. Not sure what the ring size is supposed to be - 50 perhaps?

:juggle:

[daverave999]

52. I checked so many times it's ridiculous, seeing if I'd measured it wrong or something.

[whisky77]

Apart from the cellophane it does look like the real deal from the photographs, however as far as i`m aware the No2 has never been offered in cellophane.

[cj121]

I've only got one at the mo' to compare it with Dave.
Banding looks a little iffy: the Cubans are normally meticulous with getting them right (as I understand) which may be determined by the ring guage issue you highlight. My specimen measures up, as should, at 52: put a 52 guage band on a slimmer stick and you're going to get slight overlap as in the pic eh? I'm going to stick my neck out and say counterfeit.:41:

[Ryan]

If that cigar was sold as a Monte 2 and you are sure that it is no more than a 46 ring gauge, it is definitely fake.
Ring gauge in a box of real cuban cigars will vary a little sometimes but never by that much.
If the cellophane was machine applied, that is, still smooth not crinkly and the ends folded very neatly and evenly, the cigar was definitely fake.
A vendor may have placed by hand the cellophane on a cigar, in which case it has only a 99% chance of being fake.
If the cigar was bought in Mexico by somebody who did not know where exactly to buy cigars it has a 99% chance of being fake.
The band might be real, it doesn't matter.

[Stevieboy]

I have Monte #2s from two different reputable sources and both types have overlap on the band just like yours Dave. In fact, my Especial #1s also have overlap as does the #4.
The fact that it's cello wrapped doesn't automatically mean it's fake as some retailers pack their singles in cello to protect them in transit. If it's a box of 25 or 10 you've got then deffo fake.
The biggest give-away is the slim ring gauge. From the way the cigar is bunched in the pic of the foot, to the pic of the head....all looks good. Was it a standard ring gauge you passed the cigar through or was it a tape-measure or something?

[daverave999]

I tried a couple of different ways. Mainly resting it next to a ruler. The difference in size would be 3mm diameter roughly, which is quite a lot. I did also wrap a tape measure round it and do some maths. It was nowhere NEAR what it should have been.
I'm visiting the guy who gave it to me tonight and taking a selection of sticks with me so he can have one, and I'll mention it in passing to find out where it came from. Not going to say I think it's fake of course as that would just be rude!

[TJCoro]

I'm with young :playball: stevielad on this one - cello is not a automatic disclaimer (stevielad taught me that one), but neither is the ring size.

I know :41:someone who purchased a box of puros (Bolivar RCs) from a La Casa de Habanas in Mexico a few years ago that varied quite widely in terms of the ring size. According to my :41:amigo, everything else was spot on, including the taste. The :849:proprietor of the LCdH offered to exchange them due to the inconsistency and added that they should have been rejected at the factory. In otherwords, they were authentic puros but were not constructed to the strict standards for Habanas.:doh:

My :41:friend decided to keep the puros since they smoked fine, and now he has quite a treasure after 7 years of aging :D! (box date 2002). I had the pleasure to try one and was convinced of the benefits of aging fine Habana puros! :41:

So like senor :pipe: CJ, I will stick my neck out,but unlike senor:pipe: CJ, I think you likely have an authentic puro.:nerd:

But what the hell do I know???:der:

:bandit: I'm TJ, TJCoro Damn It! And I know a fine puro when I smoke it.

[TJCoro]

One me thing I forgot to mention regarding cello, senor dave.

:nerd: I have been in several cigar shops in Mexico, including a La Casa de Habanas, that provide cellophane at the counter for single puro purchases. So like senor :playball: stevieboy, I will reinterate...cellophane on a puro is not an automatic indicator of a counterfeit.:41:

:bandit:Names TJ, TJCoro, and :shocked:BJ reminded me of that one.

[daverave999]

Ha ha! After all this time I've assumed it was countefeit and it might not have been! I'm still suspicious of the ring gauge though, having found out how they are made. Surely the wooden mould or whatever you want to call it that they put them in before they are wrapped would have to be sized correctly?

The other cigar I was given at the same time was banded Cohiba, and measures 169mm by 34 or 36 ring gauge, and was also in cellophane. Care to speculate on that one? I'll post some pics tomorrow as I'm off out soon. I can find no Cohiba listed that fits that size!

[Stevieboy]

Dave - so it's the length of a Siglo V and as thin as a panatella....and before the perverts read this I'm talking about a cigar :p

I've checked in MRN's book and I've nae idea Big Fellah :cowboyic9:

[yankeefan]

ah yes i have never been to mexico but i am familiar with the lcdh in mexico, moises down there is a good man. if you are unhappy with whatever you buy from him he will exchange it for you.

[Stevieboy]

LOL (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280365504025&ssPageName=ADME:X:AAQ:GB:1123)


Cohiba Esplendidos

Bought in 'Real Fabrica de Tabacos Partagas' in <st1><st1:city>Havana</st1:city>, <st1:country-region>Cuba</st1:country-region></st1>. The box has the official government hologram on itself as you can view in the picture (all cohiba boxes without the hologram are fake). I am selling the cigars cheaper than the official price in the <st1:country-region><st1>UK</st1></st1:country-region>, which is about £760 pounds as they are an unwanted present.


I wrote to the guy saying he'd been duped and he wrote a nice letter back:

The Cigars are not fakes.

The actual story behind them (which I could not disclose on e-bay) is that they were given to me by someone who works in the Cohiba factory in Holguin. The seals are not on them due to the fact that the person wanted to show me that they were not fake as I know what I am looking for!!.

They have all the nessesary paperwork which has not been glued on (for the reason meantioned above). They have the raised gold lettering on the Cohiba label on the actual cigar, they are the correct measurement 15mm, the correct clasp on the ceader wood box i.e. not silver pins but gold pins. Must I go on? These cigars are far from fake. Like I have stated in the advert if you are not 100% happy then I will refund the money in full??

Any more questions do not hesitate to call or mail!!

Regards

Poor sod!! He either thinks they're real or that I'll think they're real...

Anyone fancy a box split :cowboyic9:

[PoohBore]

My step dad when collecting his magicos from a a connection with the factory was also given a handful of official stickers to add to his box of genuine cigars at a bargain price. He wants me to try and sell them on. Looks like I'll pay him £100 for a load of fake cigars to keep him happy....

[TJCoro]

LOL (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280365504025&ssPageName=ADME:X:AAQ:GB:1123)


Cohiba Esplendidos

Bought in 'Real Fabrica de Tabacos Partagas' in <ST1><?xml:namespace prefix = st1 /><st1:city>Havana</st1:city>, <st1:country-region>Cuba</st1:country-region></ST1>.
Any more questions do not hesitate to call or mail!!

Regards

Poor sod!! He either thinks they're real or that I'll think they're real...

Anyone fancy a box split :cowboyic9:

Nice adddition to the "counterfeit"" thread, senor :playball: steventhebad.

Based on his e-mail, I agree that the bloke probably beleives they are real. Be nice to know how much he paid.

Names TJ, TJCoro, and information is power!

[Cohiba Fan]

LOL (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280365504025&ssPageName=ADME:X:AAQ:GB:1123)


Cohiba Esplendidos

Bought in 'Real Fabrica de Tabacos Partagas' in <st1><st1:city>Havana</st1:city>, <st1:country-region>Cuba</st1:country-region></st1>. The box has the official government hologram on itself as you can view in the picture (all cohiba boxes without the hologram are fake). I am selling the cigars cheaper than the official price in the <st1:country-region><st1>UK</st1></st1:country-region>, which is about £760 pounds as they are an unwanted present.


I wrote to the guy saying he'd been duped and he wrote a nice letter back:

The Cigars are not fakes.

The actual story behind them (which I could not disclose on e-bay) is that they were given to me by someone who works in the Cohiba factory in Holguin. The seals are not on them due to the fact that the person wanted to show me that they were not fake as I know what I am looking for!!.

They have all the nessesary paperwork which has not been glued on (for the reason meantioned above). They have the raised gold lettering on the Cohiba label on the actual cigar, they are the correct measurement 15mm, the correct clasp on the ceader wood box i.e. not silver pins but gold pins. Must I go on? These cigars are far from fake. Like I have stated in the advert if you are not 100% happy then I will refund the money in full??

Any more questions do not hesitate to call or mail!!

Regards

Poor sod!! He either thinks they're real or that I'll think they're real...

Anyone fancy a box split :cowboyic9:

The ebay listing isn't showing anymore, but I'm keen to know what they looked like and why you're so sure they were fakes?

Would it not be not be feasable for a Cuban factory worker to slip the genuine article out of the back door, so to speak, to sell on at bargain prices to tourists?

I apprecate most tourists offered cigars by locals are asking for trouble. But perhaps you can guess what's coming next...!

I bought some myself 2 weeks ago, from a lifeguard on the beach who we got friendly with. He claimed his dad worked for the factory in Holguin. We were cynical at first and a friend and I laughed as a chap from our hotel bought a box of Cohibas. That is until we saw them in his hotel room!

With regard to both Robustos and Espledidos, I've gone through the checklist (see both pages on this link: http://havanajournal.com/cigars/cohibas) and can report that:

- The bands are the correct size, the letter 'C' on Cuba is the correct font, the number of blocks at the top of the band is correct, and the gold writing is raised

- The quality and colour of the cigars is consistant throughout both boxes

- The clasp on the Esplendidos is as pictured on page 2 of the above comparison link

- The cut in the cedar lining is moon shaped, not a straight cut

- The sticker on the inside of the box is as per the genuine one in the comparison on the link provided

- The cigars smoke great with an even burn and long ash. And although I am by no means an expert, I did smoke approx 15 Cohibas from the hotel humidor and several from a shop in Havana, so I have something to compare them to.

However... as per the ebay seller, the stickers came unstuck with adhesive backings, within the box. He said this was so we could check the contents and inspect everything, then stick them on ourselves for the journey home (or he would do it for us). If these were snook out of the factory - it seems to me quite feasable that they would have all the genuine stickers ready for boxing the finished article, and that any buyer like myself would not buy a sealed box.

Then there is the price. 60 CUC (£36.50) for the 25 x Robustos, and 70 CUC (£46) for the 25 x Esplendidos

Now, me and a mate mulled over this for a good few days with a genuine Robusto and a Havana Club at the swim-up bar!! We began to think that making fake boxes to this standard, taking into account the costs of printing exact replica stickers, rice paper insert and bands and ribbons, branding of boxes, the colour consistency, build quality, consistency and quality of the smokes (although we hadn't tried one at this point) - would not only cost a lot of money, but be very difficult for Cubans to pull off due to the fact they don't have the technology.

We thought that the story he told us seemed much more likely. As supposing it was possible to churn out such good copies - after the workmanship - how much profit could seriously be made out of £36 for a box! Much more likely, we thought, is that they are nicked from the factory. Incidentally, after we both bought 3 boxes between us at the end of the holiday and got chatting to him further, he told us (without us asking or bringing it up) that the process involves his father paying the security to let him get it out, someone else being paid, the guy who patrols the beach getting a small cut, and finally he makes about 10 CUC for each box he shifts. It took a couple of days to get our cigars after we put our order in.

So, what does everyone think? Am I a lucky bugger who came across the genuine article at a bargain price, or have I been taken in by this Cuban and now the proud owner of 50 fake cigars and around £80 out of pocket and about to waste another £170 on a humidor to store a load of fakes!

I honestly value your opinions which is why I have posted here. I guess you'll now want photographs?

[Boss Hog]

Nice story, enjoyed reading it over lunch in the office. Good job I get an hour!:smile:
Everyone please correct me if you dont agree but I have limited knowledge in fakes, but surely if they were fakes they would still be made with cuban tobacco. Albeit possibly a lower grade of it but still potentially better than some NC's I've tasted.
How do they taste? If you like them then does it matter?
I've had some free unbanded cubans from 1001 before and really loved whatever they were. you could have stuck a cohiba band on it and I wouldnt have known.
Average joe down the pubs not going to know the difference either if they are that well copied. (unless it's stevieboy in disguise) and if they are real who would know as well?

If you paid a small ransom for them, I agree that you could be slightly miffed at them not being real.

[Simon-JG-hr]

- The cigars smoke great with an even burn and long ash. And although I am by no means an expert, I did smoke approx 15 Cohibas from the hotel humidor and several from a shop in Havana, so I have something to compare them to.To be honest, if they smoke well and you like then, then at £36.50 for a box of 25 it's really little odds if they are actually Cohibas or not. What you do know is that you've got cigars that you like at a good price.

My tuppence worth. :cowboyic9:

[Cohiba Fan]

I can now also confirm that the warranty seal's have the hologram logo that only shows under UV light.

I was going to buy a UV pen from ebay but then realised that I could do the same job by quickly holding the box under the bed at the local sunbed centre and top up my post Cuban tan at the same time!

I tried to take a photo and it just about came out...

[Cohiba Fan]

I wonder if anyone would consider trading a single or two with me, knowing the full story :rolleyes:

I'm dying to try some recommended smokes from you chaps, and of course get some variety in my new humidor! :cowboyic9:

[misterbulgarin]

On the subject of fakes, my mate bought a Cohiba Esplendido for £20 from my local store, and the band looked real faked. Wasnt raised, was totally wrong, even the BOX was all wrong.

I dont have a picture but the band was like this:

http://www.cigarsclub.com/images/cohiba_esplendidos.jpg

The box's typography was all off, but they stressed it was direct from Hunters and Frankau. mmmmmmmm

[ACMCC]

There are many different levels of fakes, some are very good and some are bad, if they smoke well then they are made of good tobacco, some are made with banana leaf! last time I was in the Dominican Republic there where fakes everywhere even in the good hotels, If you have the real thing or a good fake, it really doesn't matter if you like them, however I would try another single when there gone, in case you don't like the real thing (if they are fake), if you get what I mean, If you get a good smoke for £36 a box then happy days....:tongue: would be interesting to get one of our Cohiba experts to try one though! just for there opinion... you could trade it for something completely different so you can try something new, perhaps If you trade it for Pro-rata for what you paid, you might get an offer.....just in case, I don't smoke many so can't help,:smoke:

[TJCoro]

:ciao:Hey TJ! Wait up a minute....what's that you got there? :hmmmm:

OHMYGOD!!!:eek: Is that what I think it is??? :puke:


Come on in boys and take a :spy: peek (http://www.justfakes.com/).....IF YOU DARE!!!

[Simon-JG-hr]

I prefer all naturals to just fakes. :eek:

[Boss Hog]

I wonder if anyone would consider trading a single or two with me, knowing the full story :rolleyes:

I'm dying to try some recommended smokes from you chaps, and of course get some variety in my new humidor! :cowboyic9:

I would, but only after trying a sample :smile:

[Stevieboy]

Lol.
I've seen that place before...what a load of garbage.


Come on in boys and take a :spy: peek (http://www.justfakes.com/).....IF YOU DARE!!!

[Non chill filtered]

Hi tolk folks. Im 30 years of age and Ive been smoking ccs for about 18 months now, so i decided to buy my first box of punch petite punch last week. Well they arrived today vacuum sealed, the box looks perfect, all the seals look fine, the ema no is 'nov 07' and seal no is IB509245, there is a habanos hecho en cuba stamp underneath.
Upon opening, the first thing i noticed was that some of the bands prints were abit 'blurry', and one cigar looked very lightweight, so i decided to weigh them. The lightest was 4.5g and the heaviest was 7.4g nearly 3g difference. They are all the same length and colour.
Ive just smoked one, and the burn, draw and flavour were fine. Its mainly the description on some of the bands which lets them down. Is this nothing to worry about or are some of themfakes. Any info would be much appreciated. Thanks guys.:smoke:

[HabanoSy]

What supplier did you use to procure the cigars...!?!

I buy some boxes direct from H&F and sometimes upon inspection some of the bands are blurry.

No offence but I doubt whether the Punch petit punch is considered worthy of the counterfeiters time and effort.

Im sure everything is fine, you normally find that a cigars/vitolas of this size is what the newbies to the cigar rolling world learn with so discrepencies in weight is not unusual.

If you can pop some pics up so we can have a closer look...

Cheers, HabanoSy

[Non chill filtered]

Thanks for clarifying that up Habanosy. I will try and get some pics up. Im fairly new to the cigar game and ive read, poor banding = fakes.

[HabanoSy]

Not had much dealing with this company...

Im sure the other guys will pop along in a while and give their views, and if any of them had purchased from this supplier then im sure they'll tell all...

Pics are always a great help, but if their smoking ok then Im sure all's good...

Cheers, HabanoSy

[HabanoSy]

Also...

What's the box code...?

Cheers, HabanoSy

[Non chill filtered]

Yea i took a gamble with them myself not heard of them anywhere. Thats why i ordered small. Delivery was quick, priced in USD, tracking number via swiss post etc.

[Non chill filtered]

IB509245.

[HabanoSy]

Yeh, these have been discontinued by Habanos S.A. - H&F have huge stockpiles of this cigar though...!?!

Nice little smoke, that is very popular, weird to discontinue... :hmmmm2:

What's the code on the underside of the box, along with the date...?

Cheers, HabanoSy

[Non chill filtered]

Code EMA Nov 07

[HabanoSy]

Havana factory code, not sure which one though as they change them all the bloody time...!?!

Anybody...? :dontknow:

Cheers, HabanoSy

[TJCoro]

:nerd: Muchacho, everything in your description sounds about right. Not sure about the "blurry" bands though and the weight is a bit suspect, but I would bet they are genuine, based on the info you provided. Pics are always nice, however.


:bandit: TJ

[gt3911]

Hi,

I didnt feel my curiosity on this matter required a new thread, and after reading some older posts I felt it would be most appropriate to attach myself onto here. I hope you dont mind me bumping up an old topic.

A friend of mine was gifted a Cohiba - He gave it to me and asked me to store it. Sure, ok. I'm quite inclinded to say its a fake, it was bought on a trip to Poland. I'm really not worried about how geninuie his stick is, but my curiosity is more about real cigars. When we look at threads debating if said item is fake or not, we seem to apply very strict rules. How good should we expect the quality control to be on something genuine? I ask this, because - I was comparing his to some of mine which have been bought from a very reputable UK shop.

[Forgive the poor quality, camera phone only, If you want I can obtain a much higher quality photo if you'd like to see more]

Pic 1 (http://morecamberc.org/Colin/10/coh1.jpg)
Allow me to introduce you to my friends, and forgive me for the messy overflowing collection, I'm hoping for a good summer! in this picture his is sandwiched between my Siglo V and a Maduro 5 Secretos. His has quite a lot of stretch marks on the wrapper, the worst I've seen.

Pic 2 (http://morecamberc.org/Colin/10/coh2.jpg)
In this picture we have his on top and mine on the bottom - you can see his stretch marks a little in this picture, they mostly get worse towards the foot (right hand side) and you can see a bit of damage although mine is certainly not perfect - for these photos I've selected my worst Siglo V

Pic 3 (http://morecamberc.org/Colin/10/coh3.jpg)
Now - here is my first real point about the quality of my - hopefully genuine article which is on the bottom. The H in "Habana" has a break in it, where the H curls on the top right it doesn't actually join the H, there is a yellow gap. His "habana, cuba" text to me, is to bold, although his H is complete. His square's to me on the bottom row also look to low touching the gold band. Also, my cap is looking a bit ugly.

Pic 4 (http://morecamberc.org/Colin/10/coh4.jpg)
Mine again, on the bottom! Now this, is nasty, look at that terrible join, the band doesn't line up at all. At least my cap is tidier at this rotation. I have no comment to make on his apart from it looks like the top right curl on his H is also "broken" it is not.

Pic 5 (http://morecamberc.org/Colin/10/coh5.jpg)
This is a 2nd Siglo V bought at the same time, this is much more floor-less, and the H is complete, the band lines up.

Pic 6 (http://morecamberc.org/Colin/10/coh6.jpg)
My two are on the bottom again. I took this as I was fighting with a bad camera. Here, we can see the Maduro clearly has a complete "H" and you can just see the break in mine, with his looking a bit to bold.

Pic 7 (http://morecamberc.org/Colin/10/coh7.jpg)
Finally I leave you with mine on the top left, his on the top right, looking rather mushy!

So, my issue is, I'd normally be quite happy in the fact that his is fake. But I feel that some of you might like to suggest my Siglo is fake, feel free to, It really shouldn't be, I dont want to mention the source until the jury is out. Personally I'm going to say my Siglo is genuine(based on the source only), but is it fair to be so strict in some of the "is it a fake" posts if a genuine article can be questionable itself?

[TJCoro]

:bump:Bump away,senor lil' GTO,


http://www.seriouswheels.com/pics-1960-1969/1969-Pontiac-GTO-Judge-Convertible-Orange-jw-sb-2.jpg

:nerd: It's a good idea to keep this valuable information in one location.:amen:

:catsmoker:

[monkey66]

If your source is good, the stick is good IMHO.

NB - the strongest visual indication that his may be a counterfeit is the uneven spacing of the little white squares relative to the gold band.

[cj121]

Nice post and concluding point there GT. Most of the critique that gets donated to fake cigars posing as the real deal (usually for sale too:eviltongue:), eminates from the obvious: packaging and presentation. I wonder how this was in your friend's case?

GT, are they a couple of La Aurora Preferidos nestling in your humi? If so, I'd like to hear your thoughts on them as I nearly grabbed some a while back. Sorry to jack this one folks:p.

[gt3911]

Hey,

I must agree - it seems a lot easier to stop fakes in their tracks by the boxes. I think where it can become quite challenging is if your gifted, bombed, or purchasing a single. If the quality control of a genuine article fails to meet strict criteria that we'd like to apply things get a little more tricky. My band looks like a drunk person put it on. If I was gifted this item I might find it extremely difficult to announce it as being legit. Would you?

I'm going to find out more when I next see my friend, it came from his step dad who smokes king edwards frequently as far I know, I don't think he bought a box of these Cohiba's just a few sticks, but I will be enquiring.

CJ - they sure are. My top tray is 3 layers deep, and the bottom is jam packed, but I wake up to yet another rainy day! They're La Aurora Preferidos Connecticut #2 which I am yet to sample. If you really want one, let me know - people always want the good stuff :rolleyes: One day someone will want to take one of my Flor De Oliva Super Giants (10 x 66!!!) Talk about taking up real estate!

[cj121]

I guess it gets down to the micro as opposed to the macro which can lead to possible over examination, which like you note GT can get difficult. Puddings and proof? Maybe your torcedor had been imbibing a little on the day he got called in to apply bands at short notice. Not wanting to miss a shift, he went in as wobbly as your band:rolleyes:. Lets be honest, we're looking at a natural product which isn't going through the same QC process as a Japanese computer component ay?:biggrin1:


Re the Preferidos, once you get up your post count to be able to PM, drop me one and maybe we could do a trade as opposed to your kind offer GT?:smile: