End of an era

[rokkitsci]

sigh

Let me start with the disclaimer that I fully understand the reasons for placing restrictions on what we can and can't post on this forum. The simple sad truth is that in today's world, if you don't CYA, someone will surely kick it.

Having said that, I will miss the wild and woolly early days of this forum. I was fortunate in having come across UKCF early on and will miss discussions regarding how to avoid the heavy hand of a certain government agency which we will not name, the purchase of tobacco products from countries which we will not identify, the offering for sale of certain humidor accessories which will not be detailed, and the free and easy bohemian exchange of any information which we deemed might be interesting or useful.

But we live in the age of electronic communication wherein no information can be considered private or secure. An age where the Eye in the Sky can not only pinpoint your location (unless you're Osama bin Laden), but can tell you how many turds you shat. An age in which no one is responsible for their actions and will instead travel down the road to riches by suing the one with the deepest pockets.

As a result, we're all, in some form or other, constantly checking over our shoulders.

So, UKCF, migrates into its second phase. Gone will be the wide open, fuck 'em if they can't take a joke, anything goes era of our youth. Now we will be more mature, doing things the more mature adult way, leaving behind some of the wilder aspects of our youth. Not necessarily a bad thing.

The wheel turns.

[G-man]

Hits the F in nail on the head !
My man Rocket you said what I couldn't:cool:
Well its been a great run and I've
met some wonderful brothers .
But lets keep our heads intact and
bring a new and more exciting aspect
to this forum. If we throw in the towel
the Big Boys win and I say FTBB!:849:
Peace

[tippexx]

The wheel turns.

Yep. An' every un-shameable, devious, twister and faker will now think it's Christmas.

[Deano]

Yep it's a great shame, but unfortunately, we don't live in the democracy we believe we live in, and that freedom of speech isn't quite as clear cut as it should be.

All I'm saying is that we need to keep quiet on here about the plethora of sources out there, that we can all find through google. It ain't that much to ask.

[tippexx]

Actually I think we may have an answer.

What if we all took 'Glazgee' lessons from Kdot? .... no one would know what we were talkin' about then!

[G-man]

Mrs Queen Mam(may I call you mam)
Take down this wall ! Ronald Regan
http://herd.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451e1dc69e20120a6697f14970b-800wi

[Boss Hog]

Mrs Queen Mam(may I call you mam)
Take down this wall ! Ronald Regan
http://herd.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451e1dc69e20120a6697f14970b-800wi


Thats not a wall it's the queue for your weekly specials. shame no ones told them.

[G-man]

:eviltongue: And so it is :eviltongue:

[saggel]

Again... I am too new to comment...
but...



:eviltongue: And so it is :eviltongue:


roll on... :cowboyic9:

[Lee Nub]

Is that T-Bag from prison break stood on that wall lol

[saggel]

Is that T-Bag from prison break stood on that wall lol

hehehehe :849:

[Bender]

A sad day it indeed is here at UKCF. I hope this isn't the result of the recent population boom here. Perhaps it would be in the best interest of the forum to restrict new memberships for the time being?

[Boss Hog]

Yes, maybe restict it to the UK only
We could have a purge on the 'merkins I suppose that might tidy things up a bit.
They come over here onto our forum with their money, stealing our women with promises of silk stockings and chocolates it's like 1942 all over again.
Over paid, oversmoked and over 'ere.

Gotta rush, I'm modding on the Klan forum and some newbie just back from Tennessee on holiday bought some fake robes and is now trying to sell them, you know the story.

[cj121]

:biggrin1::biggrin1::biggrin1:
Boss humour old school stylee:rock:

[saggel]

Boss is right...
through the Yankees out :biggrin1:

[ronin]

:cowboyic9: I resemble that remark :cowboyic9: :(

[PoohBore]

i might be interested in the robes - are they in a glass topped box ???

[snooky]

Nothing to say , until i see my lawyer !:der:

[C-Harley]

This all seam’s a real shame, I have been an avid reader of the forum for some time before registering, as I suppose it would be said by every member here.

The knowledge I've received in the past has been very much well received, well received like a watering hole in the desert in these financial times that are in hand.

I only hope that there can be some sort of understanding/disclaimer that can be 'come up with' to be where we used to be, as a free and friendly forum to help each other out without the care of being PC knowledge wise.

Is there not some sort of way of having a 'UK side' to the www.ukcigarforum.com (http://www.ukcigarforum.com/) where it is only access to UK citizens with some way of verification thru a donation to help with the running of the forum cost's maybe ?

:849:

[moidoid]

I can understand there being a problem with discussion of foreign mail order outlets but there is nothing illegal about picking up cigars in EU & non-EU countries on our travels. Can we not discuss retail outlets that we have used when on holiday or business trips?

Just asking.

[Bender]

How about this, restrict access to the stuff that got removed until you reach a certain post count, say 500 or such. That would prevent any people with malacious intent from doing any harm. Most likely they'll just be on their way and not try to be an active member of this forum.

[C-Harley]

Bender I think the 'restricted access' is a no brainier after reflection.

I'd be willing to discuss when on 'business/holiday' the outlets I'd prefer to use

[Kdot]

sun rise, sun set...:(

[G-man]

sun rise, sun set...:(

Ahwooo Werewolves of London http://www.ukcigarforums.com/gallery/files/1/8/5/2365_fo_82wolfman_thumb.jpg (http://www.ukcigarforums.com/gallery/files/1/8/5/2365_fo_82wolfman.jpg)




http://dvice.com/pics/coffin.jpg

Say goodnight My baby !

[saggel]

It's not that bad... is it???? :confused:

[daverave999]

I can understand there being a problem with discussion of foreign mail order outlets but there is nothing illegal about picking up cigars in EU & non-EU countries on our travels. Can we not discuss retail outlets that we have used when on holiday or business trips?
I'm under the impression this will still be acceptable Tim.

[G-man]

Is there not some sort of way of having a 'UK side' to the www.ukcigarforum.com (http://www.ukcigarforum.com/) where it is only access to UK citizens with some way of verification thru a donation to help with the running of the forum cost's maybe ?

Kill all the Yankee's


http://media.nj.com/star-ledger/photo/dd66d6656e35bd0d457edbc8e758ef13_custom_665xauto.j pg
Don't worry about us we have thick skin
Oh so now its our fault?
Thats cool :smoke:

[C-Harley]

I'm Sorry and a Capital Sorry, if any offence has been taken by my comet G-Man it was not intended to come across that way :dizzy:

[cigarsmoke]

We may not have rolled over (yet) for the bully boy but we certainly shuffled to one side as he strutted past.

Its a sad day, or the thin end of the wedge, you decide.

Prehaps its time to think about drawing that line in the sand.

I say FU bully boy.

[Vision]

What did I miss? :confused:

[Rocco]

I don't know who has been putting pressure on you Deano, government or the retail industry, but all I know is they suck. Who they hell they think they are? They're just a bunch of needle-dick, pencil-pushers who try to intimidate a bunch of goodfolks who smoke cigars. I'm sure if this was a forum on marijuana, you would have been less hassled. By the way Deano, give me the names of the people who have been breaking your balls I have friends in Sicily who still owe me some favors :biggrin1:
P.S If there are any agents verifying the content of this website, please click here for more references:
http://maddox.xmission.com/images/pirate.html

[Leojvs]

WTF did I miss in the last few days???? I read the thread simply stating no ore discusion about non uk suppliers, with zero explination as to why.

Anyone care to elaborate?

[moidoid]

Well my reading of it is that if people living in the UK are discussing retail outlets for cigars which are based outside the EU then one could reasonably assume that some of them may try to import them into the UK without paying the relevant duties.

I can see that Customs and Revenue would not be happy about any discussion that would be seen to encourage such activity and neither would UK retailers who have to charge great slabs of tax on their product. If people are trying to import cigars without paying taxes then that will directly compete with their business.

Therefore, these discussions, even if not intended to promote avoiding duty, could be seen as gving people the information to do so and this would make those responsible for the UKCF vulnerable to being sued/shut down.

[Deano]

moidoid seems to be the only one with some sense!

Restricting it to the UK or restricting forums to certain post counts etc etc does not get away from the facts that moidoid just pointed out.

There is no way around this, this is how it is.

[tippexx]

Not so sure if that's quite it Moidoid .... 'cos I'm pretty sure that if you punted about the web you'ld find groups discussing nuclear fission and all sorts.

[TeeEmmBee]

Seems to me Deano's hands are tied. Its not his fault nor the Forum's and I think the quicker we accept the situation as being the way it now is, abide by the guidlines and stop writing more and more new threads about it the better; both for the benefit of the Forum and the unmentionable purveyors of fine Cuban cigars some of us utilise.

[saggel]

Deano's hands are tied

By who? That's what everybody's asking!

[Deano]

The law.

[saggel]

The law.

The UK law forbid UK citizens to discuss? :confused:
Could you please ask a lawyer about that?

[Deano]

If you would happily give me the several thousand pounds it takes to hire one.

[Leojvs]

The law.

I feel sorry for you Deano. You built one hell of a forum here, and it seems that your countrys stupid anti smoking laws have put a big downer on enjoying a good cigar.

Sadly, we are being forced to abide by these laws, as the penalties are quite severe. I am not allowed to smoke on an empty beach in QLD. There are massive fines for doing so.

[saggel]

If you would happily give me the several thousand pounds it takes to hire one.

So, actually you haven't asked anybody?

[moidoid]

The UK law forbid UK citizens to discuss? :confused:
Could you please ask a lawyer about that?

The law does not prevent any of us as individuals discussing the relative merits of different mail-order outlets. We are all responsible legally for our subsequent actions.

The position for the person responsible for the forum is quite different. If HM Customs & Revenue took the view that the Forum aided & abetted the avoidance of duty then that person could be sued. If it went to court then they might win or they might lose but if I was that person, with a real life and a proper job, then I would rather not be taking the time and money to be replying to letters from solicitors representing Customs. It is just not worth the hassle.

[Deano]

Saggel I've received advice. I don't know what your problem is, or what you're not quite understanding, but this is not up for discussion.

I have enough real life worries without having to worried about being taken to court due to some online forum where I like to spend some of my spare time.

[saggel]

I don't know what your problem is, or what you're not quite understanding, but this is not up for discussion.

I think I've asked in a really polite way, but it's ok if you don't want to answer my question. As I've said too many times, I am too new a member in here and I will not comment on any of these. However, I firmly believe that an honest explanation would fit the atmosphere better. Thank you anyway for investing the time to answer the way you did!

[whisky77]

Yes, maybe restict it to the UK only
We could have a purge on the 'merkins I suppose that might tidy things up a bit.
They come over here onto our forum with their money, stealing our women with promises of silk stockings and chocolates it's like 1942 all over again.
Over paid, oversmoked and over 'ere.

Gotta rush, I'm modding on the Klan forum and some newbie just back from Tennessee on holiday bought some fake robes and is now trying to sell them, you know the story.

LOL.Merkins.Quality Boss.:rock:

[monkey66]

Moidoid has this spot on. What else is there to discuss?


The law does not prevent any of us as individuals discussing the relative merits of different mail-order outlets. We are all responsible legally for our subsequent actions.

The position for the person responsible for the forum is quite different. If HM Customs & Revenue took the view that the Forum aided & abetted the avoidance of duty then that person could be sued. If it went to court then they might win or they might lose but if I was that person, with a real life and a proper job, then I would rather not be taking the time and money to be replying to letters from solicitors representing Customs. It is just not worth the hassle.

[Deano]

Wtf else can I say saggel? I've already told you everthing - I have received advice from someone who's a bit more involved in the law than I am, and that what we've been doing if continued could be classed as conspiracy for tax evasion.

There is nothing more to say, as there is nothing more to to it.

And even if I did want to keep something more confidential, I would be fully in my right to do so!

I think you're starting to take the piss tbh, or at least not quite understanding something?

[saggel]

Since there is nothing to discuss, I only asked the reason! All your posts were DON'Ts but without explaining the reasons. It's your forum, it's your rules, and since you are not willing to discuss I am not proposing something! Sorry for annoying you with my questions, although I didn't really got why you got so furious...

[Pantomimehorse]

can't we just respect Deans decision, he obviously doesn't want to go down this route but has to. lets just move on and smoke a fat one :smoke:

[tippexx]

Agreed, Deano dosn't need it.

But, if I were HM Customs I would see the forum as being more valuable OPEN than restricted. I'm pretty sure our Customs officers liaise with their opposite numbers in Europe and elsewhere. In the big picture what a few Habanos hobbyists may or may not get up to is just small-time compared to the much larger and organised trafficing of counterfeit and 'unaccountable' cigars. If in some small way the forum assists in pin-pointing those sort of activities, then from a Revenue perspective it's a information source for good.

[moidoid]

I wish I could believe that Customs would appreciate those subtleties Tippexx but I very much doubt they would.

[Deano]

Since there is nothing to discuss, I only asked the reason! All your posts were DON'Ts but without explaining the reasons. It's your forum, it's your rules, and since you are not willing to discuss I am not proposing something! Sorry for annoying you with my questions, although I didn't really got why you got so furious...

Maybe because you asked the same question several times and then commented on my honesty, even though previous reasons had quite evidently been put forward by me and others (and tbh were quite obvious).

Anyway, let's draw a line under it. :41:

[rokkitsci]

Yes, maybe restict it to the UK only
We could have a purge on the 'merkins I suppose that might tidy things up a bit.
They come over here onto our forum with their money, stealing our women with promises of silk stockings and chocolates it's like 1942 all over again.
Over paid, oversmoked and over 'ere.

Gotta rush, I'm modding on the Klan forum and some newbie just back from Tennessee on holiday bought some fake robes and is now trying to sell them, you know the story.

Good to know that The Voice of Reason is alive and well.

I agree, get rid of those fucking Yanks. They always expect you to speak English and then get even more annoying when they can't get a hamburger or a cold beer. Arrogant bastards.

Oh wait! I forgot again.

Never mind.

---------------------------------

Now, regarding the apparent confusion and marginal hostilities (can't we just all get along?) that seem to be developing, let me see if I can sum this up and make everyone happy.

The simple fact of the matter is that we have been discussing subjects which could easily put the moderators of this board into a very bad situation through no fault of their own. That's not fair.

We all enjoy being here and we can easily continue our enjoyment without delving into the "taboo" areas. It's not that hard, lads; it ain't rokkit science.

No reason we can't still discuss any aspect of enjoying primo stoogies (both CC and NC) or warning fellow BOTL's about dogrockets. We only need to restrict any discussion of obtaining the aforementioned from sources other than the UK. See? Now that wasn't so hard, was it?

So, belly up to the bar boys (or whatever expression you fooking limeys use, like maybe: toot your tuggle to the tavern) and I'll buy the first round. Everyone good? Okay. Then here's to UKCF and up theirs! Bottoms up!

[tippexx]

Fair do's ..... mine's a Guinness!

[saggel]

Fair do's ..... mine's a Guinness!

Stella for me and here we go! Bottoms up lads!

[Deano]

I'll take a Magners....

[Boss Hog]

Very nicely put there George. Now can we all get back to the cigars afterall it is what were all here for!

[El Catador]

I'll buy the first round. :beer:

Cheers Rok old bean, very decent of you, pip pip and all that. :beerglass:


Bottoms up! :bootyshake: :photo:

Damn, there's always a catch with you southern dandies. :usa:
Hmmn, maybe I oughta buy me own. :cheers:

[Lee Nub]

Lmao

[G-man]

Sir G of outer Space
That about sums it all up in a nut shell :der:
We all need to respect each other USA & UK
Now we have Big Bro causing problems for all of us.
So FTG and their kangaroo laws we just have to meet
in our shelters and discuss our wares !
A final note

Money talks
Bullshit walks
Sit down lets
shoot the Breeze
:rock: $$$$$$$$ :rock:

[Deano]

ooookayyyy

[cj121]

Well, it's been a few days since the needed shift in what can, does, or doesn't get posted and change is always initially uncomfortable. Deano's (and subsequently mods') position, from potentially legal intervention, would seem clear. I don't think he started this place to get his arse ragged through court, and I certainly didn't accept an invite to mod for similar reasons. I joined up to dissuade members from saying fuck, shit and bolloxs:wink::smile:

End of an era?

Cup of tea anyone?
http://s7v1.scene7.com/is/image/JohnLewis/230548828?$product$
It is still a great place to be:rock:

[Jithell]

I wonder what the mad mexican would of made of this thread:bandit:

[G-man]

KMA
To local governments
Thats Y I live in Mexico

[nicwing]

Hi guys, sorry I have been in darkest Yorkshire while all the excitement built up and died down.

Having read through this thread I think the "rumours of the demise of the forum" may be exaggerated.

Once we have got used to the new regime I think there is still a huge amount of information we can share on the cigars we love without discussing where we got them from.

Deano has created a great thing here and I really enjoy it. We have had warnings over the last year about what happens if you "thumb your nose" at the man.

[peanutpete]

is it a sad day that we can not discuss were to buy cigars on the web at a better price than the shops here? of course it is, but the demise of the forum? please dont be ridicules, i dont just read the forum to buy cheap cigars. I come on here for lots of resons as im sure we all do,i dont quite understand what some people dont understand about the issue it seems quite clear to me and i for one would not want to be on deanos or the mods shoes if a knock on the door from big brother came, even if you win the court case if it came, cost alone could wipe you out.
any way the sites we were buying from are still out there so we all know were to go dont we?

[misterbulgarin]

PM's are the new black market

[saggel]

Long Live PMs

[Big J]

:thumb:

[G-man]

Step by step instructions
http://www.chss.montclair.edu/~pererat/9980.jpg
Listen to this B B

[rokkitsci]

I come on here for lots of resons as im sure we all do

Couldn't have said it better myself, peanut, old... errr... Peanut!

I, for instance, personally, if you ask me, mainly participate on UKCF so I can read those fascinating posties by that rokkitsci fellow.

Oh, wait!

Never mind.

[misterbulgarin]

Id love to meet your george, how wonderful would that experience be :849:

[Lee Nub]

I cant wait to meet the legend himself in August :biggrin1:

[misterbulgarin]

what's going on in August? :dong:

[Lee Nub]

Im off to Orlando, and George is kindy meeting me at Corona for a few puros :)

[G-man]

CRY

[eggopp]

Wow,, chinese whispers, i started reading this thread from scratch and by the end.. the topis was different lol... Oh well i got the gist of it..

[Boss Hog]

CRY



Dont cry, I'll be there in July.

[Lou3]

I drifted away for a couple of months, only to return to -- the inevitable. Taxes, importing, and that evil tobacco don't make for a carefree combination. I can't stand The Man either, but don't want Deano or anybody else to be in harm's way. There's more than enough goodness on this forum for us to carry on.