How are cigar taxes in your country - Help needed from the non UK BOTLs

[MaledettoToscano]

I have been looking at cigar prices around the web for some time and as many have said before the impression about prices in the UK is that they are higher than they should be if taxes were the only reason. Still, unless you look at the actual local laws and taxes it is all hearsay.

So I would like to ask for the help of any non-UK BOTL with this.

It would be really helpful especially if you live in another EU country: do you have any idea how cigars are taxed where you live and could you maybe bring an example of a local price for a box of a Cuban and a non-Cuban of your choice (possibly something easy to find elsewhere so I can compare)?

If you live in the US (especially in states where tobacco products are taxed) or Canada I'd love to hear from you too.

To be clear, my goal here is not to discuss ways to avoid taxes or even complain about them, rather to see if prices in the UK (and other countries) are justified for the consumer, i.e. us BOTLs or if we are being overcharged.

Thanks!

[tippexx]

To be clear, my goal here is not to discuss ways to avoid taxes or even complain about them, rather to see if prices in the UK (and other countries) are justified for the consumer, i.e. us BOTLs or if we are being overcharged.

Thanks![/QUOTE]

In fairness, most UK sellers are 'shop fronted'. Rents and rates in the UK are generally higher than elsewhere and these have to be included in the cost of products.

[saggel]

In Greece, a box of 25 RyJ No. 3 tubos costs 107 euro (link available if I am permitted).
That's about 90GBP. I don't really know how much this box costs in the local (UK) market...

[MaledettoToscano]

In fairness, most UK sellers are 'shop fronted'. Rents and rates in the UK are generally higher than elsewhere and these have to be included in the cost of products.

True, but we have a certain amount of online-only shops which should be cheaper than the shop-fronted ones. It's a good point and I am certainly going to look into that as well.

Certainly one big difference compared to places like Germany or Holland is that cigar prices (and tobacco product prices in general) are not set by the state using the distributor suggested price. Here you can have differences in prices whereas in the countries I just mentioned the price is fixed and there's no room for variation.

The other thing to consider is that a large part of the price is determined by the distributors, so the shops selling cigars here or elsewhere might play a minor role in price. I'd kill (a cigar) to see how the prices of different Habanos distributors vary around the world :smoke:

[MaledettoToscano]

In Greece, a box of 25 RyJ No. 3 tubos costs 107 euro (link available if I am permitted).
That's about 90GBP. I don't really know how much this box costs in the local (UK) market...

Any idea how the tax is calculated in Greece? Wonder if the UK is the only place where this is calculated pe weight instead of per piece.

[saggel]

Does this (http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=MEMO/08/506&format=HTML&aged=0&language=EN&guiLanguage=en) help at all? :confused:

[cj121]

Does this (http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=MEMO/08/506&format=HTML&aged=0&language=EN&guiLanguage=en) help at all? :confused:


That's a good start in identifying the 'on top' costs saggs:thumb:

Then there are the various retail profit margins to take into account:frown:

[tippexx]

Then there are the various retail profit margins to take into account:frown:[/QUOTE]

Yes, but which often means that which the buyer will bear to suffer. Why are cars made in the UK cheaper to buy on the continent .... reason, because we put up with it!

Looking at American sites there seems to be much more price competition and discounting. The name of their game being, the lower the price, the more you sell. Here in the UK there seems to be some sort of general agreement between retailers on priceing and any differences are very small. Which might make sense if the retailers were as they were pre-internet .... eg: territorial. But with nothing now to stop a retailer in Barnsley selling on-line to a buyer in Exeter you'd think they'd be a bit more competitive!

[Nuno Sa]

In Portugal taxes are 75,6% over the price of tobacco...

[saggel]

In Portugal taxes are 75,6% over the price of tobacco...

I think in Greece is 45% but I am not really sure on that...!!! :41:

[cj121]

It's a real pisser Tipp, for sure:eviltongue:

[Smallclub]

Situation in France:

out of 100% of retail price,

47.00% —> producers, distributors, custom duties
27.50% —> excise
16.30% —> VAT
9.00% —> retailers
but actually the french tobacconist's margin on cigars is 6%.

examples:

Montecristo No.4
in Cuba: €3.34 (4.30 CUC)
in France: €7.80

Ramon Allones Specially Selected
in Cuba: €3.84 (4.95 CUC)
in France: €9.80

Punch double corona
in Cuba: €6.98 (9.00 CUC)
in France: €13.90

[saggel]

This is interesting...

Montecristo No.4
in Cuba: €3.34 (4.30 CUC)
in France: €7.80
in Greece: €7.20

[G-man]

To be clear, my goal here is not to discuss ways to avoid taxes or even complain about them, rather to see if prices in the UK (and other countries) are justified for the consumer, i.e. us BOTLs or if we are being overcharged.

Thanks!

In fairness, most UK sellers are 'shop fronted'. Rents and rates in the UK are generally higher than elsewhere and these have to be included in the cost of products.[/QUOTE]

In my country if we buy out of state there are no taxes added to our purchases!
Zippo,Nada,Nothing ! And now you know the rest of the story.
When I offer to my brothers all over the globe There is no profit above the retail price and in most cases way below that. I have a love of the leaf and enjoy anyone with the same passion . So I feel for the retailers in the UK who have their rents and store fronts.
But when some one is price gouging then the consumers need to do what they've need to do . I don't shop in these countries so I can't fairly say what the taxes and duties are. Only those that live there can say if taxes are too high and they are getting gouged !
My $.02

[SeanP]

In my country if we buy out of state there are no taxes added to our purchases!
Zippo,Nada,Nothing !

That's state taxes that you are not charged, but are required to pay by law when importing tobacco into your own state. However you don't avoid the Federal 52.75% tax that has been capped at about $0.41/cigar that was imposed last April. So you are actually only avoiding sales tax.

[G-man]

And you are correct !
But are they going to spend the time and $ on the person doing such an act ?

[MaledettoToscano]

Thanks for all the very useful replies people. I'll crunch some numbers and let you know what comes out.

I've done some very preliminary calculations comparing UK and German prices and from the first things it would seem that taxes are after all really what make price so high over here.

[saggel]

Montecristo No.4
in Cuba: €3.34
in France: €7.80
in Greece: €7.20
in the UK: €9.20

[K Baz]

Montecristo No.4
in Cuba: €3.34
in France: €7.80
in Greece: €7.20
in the UK: €9.20

In Canada they would be 10.55 Euro

[Leojvs]

In Australia tobacco is taxed per kg. The current tax rate is $323.xx per kg.
That is a fair amount to add to a box of cigars that may cost you $120usd.
This amount increases weekly by a small amount.

1 year ago it was about $290/kg.

[Lou3]

In the US, tax on cigars was until recently determined solely by each state. In my state, Pennsylvania, it's the standard 6% sales tax. They've tried imposing a state tobacco tax, but it hasn't passed. It seems that the likelihood of a particular state taxing tobacco depends primarily on how big the tobacco industry is in that state.

Around a year ago, the State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP) was expanded to include a nationwide tax on tobacco products. SCHIP is a national program that provides fund matching for state-provided health insurance for uninsured children. For large cigars, it's 52.75% with a cap of 40.26 cents. The initial SCHIP expansion proposal asked for a tax rate of 20,400% on large cigars.

So, in Pennsylvania, I pay 6% state sales tax plus up to 40.26 cents SCHIP tax.

[tandblov]

Well, tobacco taxes vary from state to state. SOme have almost confiscatory tax structures for tobacco, others charge none.