Where do you start?

[moppy]

Beginner's Cigars by UKCF
(http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AjabLn3w_wQtdFAzVmZvZEVjYnN2SV9PQURqUmxhT lE&hl=en)



As someone brand new to cigars, how do you go about finding out what to smoke? The sheer variety of brands, sizes, flavours, confuses the hell out of me and I have no idea where to start. So how does one go about choosing his first 25 or so smokes?

I'm sure there are many like me who when they first started, knew well known brands such as Cohiba, Montecristo, H. Uppman etc, but when it comes to NC and lesser known CC such as RA, Partagas, Diplomaticos, are completely ignorant.

What I ask of you dear members of UKCF, is that you would put together a list of 25 cigars which demonstrate what cigar smoking is about. Cigars of extremely different flavours, strengths, wrapper shades, sizes, origins and create a list that any beginner to cigar smoking can look at, order online and experience the variety of smokes available in the industry.

It is quite a daunting task I'm sure, but it would be very helpful to me to know the top "must try" cigars for beginners. I'm not talking MUST TRY as in "would love to try" but just a wide range of cigars which allow the smoker to see the many different sides of cigars.

So the rules are thus:
- Seegar may be both CC & NC
- Seegar must not exceed £12.50 per stick (alright maybe £15.00 but remember this is a beginner smoking it! Do you want a premium cigar to go wasted on some fool like me who can't yet appreciate it?)
- Seegar must be in production now and readily available
- Most importantly, seegar must be gooooood :biggrin1:

Contribute as many names as you want, lets aim for an even mix of NC & CC and hopefully if you guys put together a great list, this might get stickied for future beginners!

Update:Well we got 49 instead of the 25 cigars I mentioned, but here they are in spreadsheet form!

(http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AjabLn3w_wQtdFAzVmZvZEVjYnN2SV9PQURqUmxhT lE&hl=en)Beginner's Cigars by UKCF (http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AjabLn3w_wQtdFAzVmZvZEVjYnN2SV9PQURqUmxhT lE&hl=en)

All prices are from Cgars LTD.

[shuckins]

samplers are a great way to try a wide variety without spending too much...

[eggopp]

I started off with La Invictas NC's you can pick them up cheap enough at Cgarsltd, i also started off on Romeo y Julieta range CC both are good stogies for the beginer:biggrin1:

[Simon-JG-hr]

Wow, what a big task! :eek:

I'll try and put up a list of some good options tomorrow - giving me a chance to think about it.

There were two places which I started to learn about cigars and cigar selection. One was the retailers - particularly the team at CGars, who recommended a good selection of cigars to my tastes. The other source of information, a little later on, was t'interweb... First general browsing, then, eventually, this place (and its very knowledgeable members). Now I also check out magazines such as Cigar Aficianado for ideas, especially for NCs.

[moppy]

samplers are a great way to try a wide variety without spending too much...
Sure, but they may also contain cigars that erm...dont have the best of reputations lets say! :biggrin1: Theres usually some duds snuck in (duds according the majority of reviews) and they aren't actually that much cheaper. They usually include p&p which may make it look attractive but if youre buying 25 cigars, most retailers will give you free p&p anyway.

And if you have a list recommended by the fine members of a knowledgeable forum such as this, why would you go with a lucky dip sampler from the retailer :confused:

Simon - I look forward to seeing what you come up with!

Eggopop - Any specific recommendations from either brand? RyJ have quite a few cigars :tongue:

[Soulmanure]

I remember being in your position, and I still feel that I am not quite out of it. But here is my progression of cigars that made me get it:

Montecristo 4 (nice, mellow intro)
Montecristo 2 (blew me away)
Montecristo Edmundo (smooth smoke, as I recall)
RyJ exhibition 4 (great complex flavors)
Partagas D4 (was an epiphany)
Partagas short (great short smoke)
Ramon Allones Specially Selected (beautifully rich flavor)

From one noob to another. Happy hunting!

[shuckins]

Sure, but they may also contain cigars that erm...dont have the best of reputations lets say! :biggrin1: Theres usually some duds snuck in (duds according the majority of reviews) and they aren't actually that much cheaper. They usually include p&p which may make it look attractive but if youre buying 25 cigars, most retailers will give you free p&p anyway.

And if you have a list recommended by the fine members of a knowledgeable forum such as this, why would you go with a lucky dip sampler from the retailer :confused:

Simon - I look forward to seeing what you come up with!

Eggopop - Any specific recommendations from either brand? RyJ have quite a few cigars :tongue:


this is true. but just because somebody likes a certain cigar,that don't mean you will. one man's dud is another's favorite sometimes...

[moppy]

Now thats what I'm talking about Soulmanure! And most of them below £12.50 too, you sir have deserved this (http://www.babble.com/CS/blogs/strollerderby/2009/06/chocolate_chip_cookie.jpg)!



this is true. but just because somebody likes a certain cigar,that don't mean you will. one man's dud is another's favorite sometimes...

Very true I see your point, but if you had the choice between two cigars of the same price, one generally maligned, the other generally well liked, which one would you rather try if you haven't tried either? I'm not saying that you should completely base your likes and dislikes on what other people like and dislike, but when you're starting out, surely it's useful to know which cigars are regarded as the more likeable ones?

[shuckins]

Now thats what I'm talking about Soulmanure! And most of them below £12.50 too, you sir have deserved this (http://www.babble.com/CS/blogs/strollerderby/2009/06/chocolate_chip_cookie.jpg)!



Very true I see your point, but if you had the choice between two cigars of the same price, one generally maligned, the other generally well liked, which one would you rather try if you haven't tried either? I'm not saying that you should completely base your likes and dislikes on what other people like and dislike, but when you're starting out, surely it's useful to know which cigars are regarded as the more likeable ones?

definitly!

my top 5:
boli beli finos
party pce
trini rob
cohiba II
monte 4

[EugeneSax]

Of course everyone has their own totally different tastes & experiences so you'll probably get totally different suggestions from everyone that replies. My own preference is for CC over NC - I think there's far greater difference between the brands of Cuba than in all the other cigar producing countries put together. And in the Uk, CC value for quality is much better.

I also think, in general the smaller cigars (TPC, PC, C etc) give a very good impression of brand characteristics.

Finally I think it's hard to get a good impression from a sinlge stick - I suggest 3 of each, thus my list covers 8 cigars plus a biggie for a special occasion. If you still don't like a cigar after the second stick, you can always trade it on here.

Taking into account the above, I have tried to cover the diversity that the best of Cuba can offer, along with the classic brands:

RA Small Club Corona
Bolivar Corona Junior - Bolivar & RA are about the most powerful Cubans and these smallies are a great introduction to the brands for a newbie. Could step up to PC, but IMO that's a step down in quality.

Trinidad Reyes - simply a greater cigar, no matter it's lack of stature, and a premium plus brand.

R&J Tubos "De Luxe" (beware the machine made non-deluxe) 2 or 3: C or PC sized. I think the tubos just nudge the boxed versions for this great brand. alternatively, going slightly left-field, but stepping up in quality: Por Laranaga - a bijou brand, but a great cigar, possibly the best PC currently available.

Partagas PC or C - another good introduction for one of the more powerful "global" brands.
Not a favourite of mine, but highly regarded, if feeling brave, step up to a D4 for a bigger stick with more complexity.

Hoyo Epi 2 - a classic & noticeable step up in complexity from the smaller sticks.
Cohiba IV - any serious collection has to have Cohiba & this is a great one. Might blow your per stick budget, but if you go with some of my smaller suggestions, your average costs should be in line.
Monty 2 - as above.

And for a special - R&J tubed Churchill - a classic celebratory cigar & a relatvely easy big stick for a newbie. You could try an RJ Duke instead, but I would go for the Churchill's length over the Duke's girth.

Noticeable omissions includ Upman, one of trhe most distinctive brands, but require a few years to begin to show some of their unique character. Also Juan Lopez - a 'lesser known brand' but a favourite on here in the robusto-sized #2. However not THAT differnt to the Hoyo Epi2 to warrant inclussion here (except as an alternative to the Epi).

If you really wanted to include some NC's, then perhaps go for 2 of some of the above instead of 3. Others on here would be better placed to advise on which NC's to go for. If I had to suggest one - Fuente Hemingway Short Story.

My final suggestion is to avoid LE & RE's - not that some aren't great smokes, just that the premium cost for rarity probably isn't justifiable for a newbie still to get to know the main-line cigars.

PS - have a look at post 12 of the "Biggest & best.." thread on the retailers forum where Smokeymo is still offering an effectively free humidor with 25 Cubans.

[rollzst]

Montecristo number 4
Montecristo number 2
(the two best selling Cuban cigars)

Partagas serie d number 4
Hoyo de Monterrey epicure number 2 ( a nice more mellow smoke)
Cohiba siglo 2
Cohiba robusto
Romeo and julieta exibition number 4
H upman corona junior
Trinidad robusto T
Ramon allones specially selected

These are some of my favourites. Some of them may be a little strong for you at first but it's good to test out which strengths you prefer. The hoyo de Monterrey line are good beginner cigars particually the epicures as they are milder but still offer great flavours.

These are all I can think of right now but you won't go wrong with that list. I don't smoke many non cubans so someone else is going to have to help you out with them.

Happy smoking.

[TJCoro]

:baby: One of the first puros I tried was the H. Upman pet....peti....:doh: small corona. That's all it took to get started for me.http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/copycat.gif

:nerd: There's is a lot of good information available (http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/book.gif mags and primers), but there's no substitute for talking with experienced smokers (like you find here), sampling as many puros as you can http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/broke.gifafford, and jotting down some notes:stupido:.

Over time, you will begin to hone in on the vitolas/brands you prefer. http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/crackhead.gif

Good Luck! http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/hope.gif



:catsmoker:

[moppy]

Thanks for all the suggestions guys! Eugene Sax I saw the sale thread, it was the inspiration for this thread ;)

I would like to see a few more NCs, over on Cigar Asylum all you hear about is NCs but I guess they dont have a choice across the pond!

I will update the first post tomorrow with the suggestions you guys have made, keep em coming, I'd like to see a few more light cigars, just to have variety :D

[Soulmanure]

[QUOTE=moppy;74018]Now thats what I'm talking about Soulmanure! And most of them below £12.50 too, you sir have deserved this (http://www.babble.com/CS/blogs/strollerderby/2009/06/chocolate_chip_cookie.jpg)!

Damn that looks tasty!

[Habana-Habanos]

Try guantanamera...




No that was a joke, don't do that, unless you like smoking cuban horse manure wrapped in leafs. I started with a RA Small Club Corona, thy are very tasty and convinient for the beginner.

-HH.

[Robusto]

I found my way from cigar books before the web. Reading was the entry.

I started with Hoyo de Monterrey Epicure No2 - my first quality smoke - and was instantly hooked on the taste and smell. Downhill from there, really.

I have no idea where you are, but I'd advise any London-based Brit to visit one of the main cigar stores for some personal pointers.

Why not put on a blindfold and play lucky dip in the humidors at Davidoff or la Casa, Teddington?

[Lee Nub]

For non cubans, any of the Rocky Patel ranges, Pepins smokes are great and some of them are a very decent price. Padilla's , Perdomo and my favourites Nubs. All great brands. I suppose it depends on what wrapper you like too, if you prefer a lighter wrapper go for a Nub connecticut or a padilla champagne. For a darker wrapper try the Nub Habano or Cameroon, both of those are great flavoured cigars and 2 of my favourites

If you want a smaller cuban smoke, try the Cohiba Secreto, great little cigar full of Cohiba taste

Drop me a line and I will see what I can dig out for you :)

[senor_robusto]

hey moppy,
i'm just catching up with this thread!!!! i see you've already jumped into the deep end with the bolivar royal corona!!!!:rock: repect man, that's one mother of a cigar

as someone starting out, here's a couple of (sub £15) cubans i'd recommend for you! in no aparticular order.......
1. romeo y julieta short churchill (approx £13)
2. montecristo no. 4 (approx £10)
3. cohiba maduro secretos (approx £12)
4. partagas shorts (approx £7)
5. cuaba traditionales (approx £7)
6. trinidad reyes (appox £9)
7. cohiba siglo 2 (approx £12)
8. hoyo de monterrey epicure no. 2 (approx £13)
9. partagas serie d no. 4 (approx £13)

all are great smokes, around an hour each, plus a nice variety of sizes and flavours/ strengths!!!! i guess you'll not be smoking everyday, so you'lll be able to afford one or 2 at a time, leave 'em in your wee tupperdor for a week or two then enjoy them!!!!

btw, welcome to the fold!!!! :rock::849:

alex

[tippexx]

samplers are a great way to try a wide variety without spending too much...

I agree with Shuckins .... variety is the way in which to eliminate those cigars which you don't much like so you might eventually arrive at those which you do.

Samplers may as you say contain the occasional 'dud' ... but 'one mans meat' ... and not that you have to take-up the shop suggested samplers ... most allow you make up your own.
Also, it's far better you know what you don't like by tasting one cigar than by buying a box of 25 on the strength of someone else's taste.

I don't particularly like big or overly strong cigars. These are some of my favourites and which most UK retailers will be able to supply fairly cheaply as singles.

1) HdM du Marie
2) Bolivar Bonitas
3) Trinidad Reyes
5) Montecristo No.5
6) La Gloria Cubana Médaille d'Or No. 4
7) Juan Lopez Petite Coronas
8) RyJ Coronas
9) Partagas Shorts
10) HdM Petit Robusto

[SeanP]

If I were you I would get a few samplers and smoke whatever I could get my hands on for the first 6 months to a year. Smoke as many different blends, brands and vitolas that you can. In that time you will find a few that you will go back to immediately and others that you will absolutely cast off and not look at again. You should do this without regard to price or band and smoke what YOU like, not what happens to be in fashion at that time.

The reason for this is you don't have a developed palate yet. Smoking a variety and cigars and keeping a detailed list and notes will help you develop this. You may smoke a cigar tommorrow that you hate but will revisit months later and like. And you might find a cigar that you can't get enough of that you would not even consider smoking in a years time.

Have fun with it and enjoy the ride!

[Simon-JG-hr]

Okay then, here are some of my recommendations:

I share quite a few opinions with EugeneSax, amongst which is the belief that a brands petit corona can be an excellent example of its style.

I think that there are a few brands which are really well suited to those just starting out, primary of which is probably Romeo y Julieta. The great thing about RyJ, in my opinion, is the diversity within the range. There are a few different flavour profiles, but all fall quite comfortably within the medium strength category. So here's my recommendation of RyJ cigars:


Tubo No1 - can't remember the exact experience, but it was my first ever cigar, and it was lovely. Got me well and truly hooked.
Tubo No3 - really enjoyable cigar, slightly vegetal. Great with a really hoppy beer.
Cedros No3 - delightful little smoke - obviously has some nice cedary flavours.
Short Churchill - you've just got to - a great robusto-ish sized cigar, it's a classic for a reason. Somewhere between the Cedros No3 and Tubo No3 in flavour.

Some other excellent cigars that I would recommend for you include (where I've written a review of the cigar, I have linked to it):


El Rey del Mundo Petit Corona - possibly one of the best cigars I've smoked. Lovely and light with fresh flavours. Excellent for a lovely summer afternoon. (Also worth considering the Lunch Club and Choix Supreme by ERdM - possibly my favourite brand). Review (http://www.ukcigarforums.com/showthread.php?t=1871)
Vegas Robaina Famosos - what an excellent brand VR is, and what an excellent cigar the Famosos is. Great bitter chocolate flavours, smoothness and hints of leather and cocoa. Review (http://www.ukcigarforums.com/showthread.php?t=2415)
Juan Lopez Seleccion No2 - a great cigar. I thought the other guys on the forum were exaggerating when they typed of this mystical cigar, they weren't. A great robusto - very remincent to a great Bordeaux wine in the mouth. Stepping up the strength scale, but only slightly. Review (http://www.ukcigarforums.com/showthread.php?t=2665)
Diplomaticos No2 - the big boy of my recommendations. I had not enjoyed every other Dippy I had smoked, but the No2 is a different beast entirely. Great flavour development, great construction. Medium strength, but be warned, if you smoke it to the nub, it will definitely catch you lbw... Review (http://www.ukcigarforums.com/showthread.php?t=4792)
Cohiba Exquisito - there are so many great Cohibas out there (there are also so many expensive Cohibas out there). A really creamy, smooth cigar - one of the nicest experiences with a stick I have had. I've had a lot of these, and they have all been absolutely flawless. (Also worth trying something from the SIGLO line as they have a different flavour profile in my experience).
Trinidad Reyes - a great cigar with nice woody spiciness. I've only had two, but a perfect complement to a good, strong coffee in the morning.
H.Upmann Corona Junior - not a brand I'm overly familiar with, but really enjoyed the Corona Junior I smoked a couple of weeks ago.

I've not smoked a lot of non-Cubans, but of those I have, the best would have to include Rocky Patel's Decade series of cigars and Davidoff's Special Range of smooth and delicious cigars (especially the Entreacto, a very short cigar, and the Special-R, a robusto).

A couple of non-Cubans which I'm looking forward to trying (but haven't yet), include: Oliva SerieG and Padron 1926 80 Years edition.

Hope those few ideas are helpful. There are just so many Cuban cigars out there (and even more NCs) that it is a very difficult task to narrow down a small selection to try out. :849:

[whisky77]

Samplers are undoubtedly the way to go if you are unfamiliar with the diffrerent taste profiles available from the different brands.

This wil give you an idea of your personal preferences without laying out cash for an entire box.

[moidoid]

I'm surprised that no-one has mentioned the Saint Luis Rey Serie A. This is one of my favourite reliable cigars and comes in at about £12.50.

[tippexx]

I'm surprised that no-one has mentioned the Saint Luis Rey Serie A. This is one of my favourite reliable cigars and comes in at about £12.50.


That's the only trouble. If we keep recommending Moppy's gonna end up a pauper within a fortnight!

[senor_robusto]

well, as simonjgriffithshr has already said, you can't go wrong with the romeo y julieta brand, especially as a starting point!!!! and, as he so rightly put it, you just gotta try the short churchill, a proper classic habanos in my opinion!!!! the RYJ tubos no. 2 is a great wee smoke for a beginner......

okay, so i'll chuck in another suggestion (bearing in mind the guy's a student on a budget):
*check out your local asda, they normally carry the H upmann corona junior for about a fiver (and the punch coronation for about £6), as simonjgriffithshr also said, a pleasant wee smoke!!!!
*i wouldn't worry too much about cohibas for now, they're quite expensive and i reckon that the other brands have better, cheaper options (e.g partagas, bolivar, h upmann)

so far, from what i know, you've had a montecristo petite tubos (tubed no. 4) and a bolivar royal corona, two great cigars, yet poles apart in terms of size and strength!!!! what size were you more comfortable with?

also, what about the bolivar tubos no. 2? one of the richest, best petite coronas out there, a bargain at about £10!!!!

hope this helps,

alex:849:

[moppy]

Alright just to make some things clear:
- Im not planning on buying a box of 25 of any cigar just yet
- The list is just to put together a list of reasonably prized cigars that will allow a beginner to enter the world of cigar smoking. Depending on what he/she wants in terms of size/shape/strength, they can order 3/4 cigars of something they like the sound of and try it out.
- This thread is hopefully not just for me, but for everyone else who is just starting out and would like to know in which direction to go for their first order
- To those of you suggesting to buy samplers, thats precisely what this is, depending on how you want to buy, you can either have 25 different cigars to try or 2 of 12 different cigars etc.

And I am taking down every cigar recommended so far and checking its price and availability on the biggest online cigar retailer I know CGars LTD. The original post will soon be updated with a beautifully formatted and ordered list of cigars so far recommended :849:

[satch]

Looking forward to finding out what you buy, Moppy.
I like: HdM petit robusto, PL PC's, Trini Reyes. Just this weekend had a Nub Maduro from Lee Nub. Not too strong, ash fell off with an audible thud!

[cjlawrie]

I look forward to seeing the list! :)

[Kdot]

here's my list for a good start

Hoyo Epicure 2
Partagas D4
Juan Lopez No.2
Monte no.4
Cohiba Siglo IV
RyJ Churchill

Non Cubans try to get some:
Padilla 1948 Robusto
Olivia V

All great cigars imho, cant go wrong.

[spivy]

Just keep trying new cigars. Eventually you will figure out what you like. Don't give up with one stick of one brand. Try a couple sizes in each brand. Eventually you will develop a liking for a certain type of cigar and certain size. And you will go from there. Or as some put it, you will fall off the cliff.

[daverave999]

I'm going to be contrary here and suggest you read lots of reviews (http://www.cigars-review.org/) and try what you like the sound of if you're only buying a few at a time, rather than on recommendations. That way you can steer yourself through them all depending on the previous experience, and you may hit upon something great that is not well known. Taking notes on each cigar will also help to remind you of what you liked and disliked about each one.

I agree with EugeneSax in that you should buy 3 of each; if you only have one it may be an off one. Some cigars smoke great straight from the post, whereas some need a few months 'rest' in a humidor after travel to give a typical flavour profile. Also, your palate will develop quickly in the initial stages and tastes you didn't notice two months before can be much more noticeable with a little practice.

I will also dissent on the 'buying tubos from the supermarket' suggestion. I have had bad experiences with doing this, with the cigars having dried out from the lids not being on correctly. I realise this may be atypical but YMMV.

With all that said, here's my list of Cubans that I would suggest to others newer to this than me:

Ramon Allones Small Club Coronas
Hoyo de Monterrey Petit Robustos
Trinidad Reyes
El Rey del Mundo Choix Supreme
Vegas Robaina Famosos
Saint Luis Rey Serie A
Romeo y Julieta Short Churchill
H. Upmann Magnum 46
Partagas Serie P No. 2

Basically, just try all the brands in whatever size takes your fancy at the time, and take notes.

[jdawg]

Many good cigars have already been mentioned.

The following are staples in my humi:

Cuban
Partagas D4
Partagas P2
Partagas Shorts
H. Upmann Mag 46
HDM Petit Robustos
HDM Epi #2
El Rey Del Mundo Choix Supreme
Ramon Allones SS
Cohiba Siglo II
Cohiba Secretos
Juan Lopez #2
RJ Short Churchill

Non-Cuban
My Father
My Father Le Bijou 1922
Oliva V
Padron Anniversary 1926 & 1964
Rocky Patel Sungrown & Decade
Tatuaje
Alec Bradley Tempus, Overture, Prensado
Illusione
NUB, CAIN
Arturo Fuente Anejo, god of fire, Opus X
Man O' War Ruination
Padilla 1948, Miami, 1932

There are many more good ones out there, but here is a good starting point. Like others have said, samplers are the way to go. Happy exploring!

[satch]

Good selection there, Mr Dawg!

[Soulmanure]

I gotta agree with daverave999--reading a lot of reviews helped send me in the right direction.

This site has been a great help: www.cigars-review.org (http://www.ukcigarforums.com/www.cigars-review.org)

[moppy]

Update! (http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AjabLn3w_wQtdFAzVmZvZEVjYnN2SV9PQURqUmxhT lE&hl=en)

Thanks for your help fellas, I've got a friend who is interested in splitting the 25 cigars with me, so I will pick out some of the cigars from that list and buy 2 or 4 of them! Ive got a good mind to pick up some La Ricas and some Chinchaleros, Ive heard some good reviews on this forum and they seem dirt cheap too!

[cjlawrie]

Nice list! Good old google docs works well again :)
I think I might have to pick some for your list and buy a few also! This thread should be a sticky for those of us who are not that well grounded in cigar lore and experience as yet :)

[Stevieboy]

Nice spreadsheet Moppy :thumb: definitely should be in the Wiki

[moppy]

Thanks guys :)

I've now set it so that anyone can edit it, if you guys feel like something should be there that isnt, then feel free to add em in.

Once I figure out how to add it to the Wiki I'll do that too.

[merryjainusa]

well beginners must think while starting cigar smoking. It must not be very strong,there were wide range for beginners available out there

[spirit_of_will]

I've just come across this thread, only just back from Cuba and my first proper cigar experiences - sat in the garden of the Nacional in Havana with a RyJ No.1 can't be too bad a place to start?

Moppy - so, 9 to 10 months down the line how have you got on with all of the suggestions that were made? What did you actually end up buying and how did you find them. I'm in exactly the same situation as it seems you were... knowing where the heck to start!

[JOAO LA PEZ]

Like yourself i am quite new to the "proper" cigars experience as i do not count the time spent smoking machine made brands like King Edwards.
What i have learned is to make time to fully enjoy the cigar you have chosen, light carefully, smoke slowly and have a drink to go with it, having blown my own head off a couple of times with big smokes i no longer chase the flavours i let them come to me, doing this i have not found a stick that i did not enjoy.
Apologies to be off topic but thats just me.

[Deano]

Feck me Will, perfect place to start! I started on the roof terrace of the Parque Central in Havana over looking old Havana and the Capitol.