France and lack of cigars.

[whisky77]

I just spent two weeks touring the South of France and I was really disappointed with the lack of cigar shops. I only came across one decent shop in the time I was there, and the prices were comparable with UK prices.

I had assuned that there would be the same amount of interest in cigars as there is in mainland Spain and could not believe that there were so few good smoke shops, additionally I never saw one other cigar smoker in the time i was there. Not what I had expected at all.:frown:

[Habana-Habanos]

Wouldn't surprise me. Not all people can taste the fine hobby of luxury cigar smoking.

[G-man]

Reason why : They probably surrender their taste buds !:fight::help::scared::yield:

[Habana-Habanos]

Haha..

[Smallclub]

1/ Spain is the biggest market for habanos in general, but France is the first market for premium habanos.
In 2006 the cigar market was valued at 1.800.000.000 units sold per year. They have to be sold somewhere…

2/ Tobacco is a state monopoly.
A tobacconist in France is a gouvernment agent. The margin on cigars is only 6%. That's why there are no cosy, luxury tobacco shops with mahogany paneling and house pipe blends here.
(tobacco blending is illegal)
This is something one can learn by inquiring a bit when preparing a trip…

3/ As a matter of fact, all the good retailers are located in the bigger cities.

[TJCoro]

Reason why : They probably surrender their taste buds !:fight::help::scared::yield:



1/ Spain is the biggest market for habanos in general, but France is the first market for premium habanos...

2/ Tobacco is a state monopoly...

3/ As a matter of fact, all the good retailers are located in the bigger cities.



http://www.easyfreesmileys.com/smileys/free-cool-smileys-268.gif (http://www.easyfreesmileys.com/Free-Cute-Smileys/)Ha! Take that, senor :painkiller: GAS (aka G-strapman) :pound:


http://houseofsmileys.com/user/img/r08q1013timmo/bag.gif

[eggopp]

Oh i normally go to a tobac in Calais where you can get a good assortment of cubans when your passing through and a lot cheaper than uk prices.. Maybe i just got lucky but i always use the same two stores for a little variety :849:

[Kdot]

Good to see you back on here Whisky, I found the lack of outlets in the south of France to be similar when I went. Luckily I was traveling from switzerland so was up to my eyes in smokes!

[G-man]

Good to see you back on here Whisky, I found the lack of outlets in the south of France to be similar when I went. Luckily I was traveling from switzerland so was up to my eyes in smokes!

Eye thought your eyebrows looked strange

[daverave999]

Smallclub, you say tobacco blending is illegal - does that mean all the pipe tobacco is imported? I understood France was quite the centre of excellence for pipe making at one point? Seems a strange law to have - do you know the reasoning behind it?

[Robusto]

The French have a couple of cigar magazines - like French CAs, but independent - which sit on the magazine racks with the hunting mags. They are an interesting read, and we don't have a British equivalent. Where the US mag might concentrate on private jets and boats, you're more likely to learn which chateau restaurant to eat a lovely soup in in the French ones. And they do great features about buxom young actresses with cigars from time to time. A great diversion.

I've always found you are more likely to pick up a good couple of sticks in certain tabacs, rather than in a JJ Fox affair, in the big towns.

I know what you mean price-wise, Whisk. There are no cigar bargains to be found.

[Smallclub]

I know what you mean price-wise, Whisk. There are no cigar bargains to be found.
No bargain, but some prices are still much lower than in the UK…
some examples:
• Bolivar corona extra €6.90 – UK: £11.49
• Bolivar Inmensas €9.20 – UK: £13.49
• ERDM Choix Suprême €7.90 – UK: £9.99
• SLR churchill €11.40 – UK: £17.99
• Por Larrañaga PC €5.30 – UK: £8.00

Prices are set by government decree, they are the same everywhere in France.

[Stevieboy]

I struggled to find dedicated shops when I was in Carcassone but there were a few newsagents with decent stock. Prices were pretty good too. I bought some JL Obus for around £10 each...not bad for an RE :41:

[Flying Cigar]

1/ Spain is the biggest market for habanos in general, but France is the first market for premium habanos.
In 2006 the cigar market was valued at 1.800.000.000 units sold per year. They have to be sold somewhere…

2/ Tobacco is a state monopoly.
A tobacconist in France is a gouvernment agent. The margin on cigars is only 6%. That's why there are no cosy, luxury tobacco shops with mahogany paneling and house pipe blends here.
(tobacco blending is illegal)
This is something one can learn by inquiring a bit when preparing a trip…

3/ As a matter of fact, all the good retailers are located in the bigger cities.

1/ Frank can you explain the 1.800.000.000 units, please, you have lost me with the billions :smoke: or is it Euros ??
And what is it about being the "first market" for premium Habanos, in relation to what - UK, Switzerland, Hong Kong, Liechtenstein ??
Where does it matter ??

2/ Tobacco is a state monopoly in Spain as well.
Estancos are Government agents and not much more profit margin than farther up north, but still available any & everywhere.
Not cozy either, but still around & abound.

3/ As a matter of fact, cigars available anywhere at reasonable prices in Spain - Estancos, shops, bars, réstaurants.

4/ Cigar Prices are the same all over Spain by law.

[tippexx]

[QUOTE=Flying Cigar;113999]1/ Frank can you explain the 1.800.000.000 units, please, you have lost me with the billions :smoke:



I read that as meaning the number of individual cigars, but to achieve that sort of number they must be including every pack of mini's sold as ten units.

[Robusto]

Daytrips to Calais are handy for bringing back Calasian sticks.
Nice outlets in Calais high stretts.

Not that Calais is France, of course.

[Robusto]

Think eggey said that.

[Smallclub]

1/ Frank can you explain the 1.800.000.000 units, please, you have lost me with the billions :smoke: or is it Euros ??
My apologies – I stupidly copied/pasted an article from the Chamber of Commerce & Industry News Mag, and obviously this figure is the number of cigarettes sold per year.
The number of cigars consumed every year is around 12.000.000 units (probably around 20.000.000 or more in Spain).
I must check articles in cigar magazines, but they're in the attic now… :rolleyes:

[Aussiewaz]

I'd dispute that Spain is the biggest market for Habanos. Even Habanos distributors say that the US is the biggest market by a massive difference. (I could be missing something though, as usual).

[Smallclub]

Even Habanos distributors say that the US is the biggest market by a massive difference.
Who? When? Where? You won't find an official declaration, consolidated figures, etc…
We all now that the US is a huge market but we're talking "visible" markets here…

[Aussiewaz]

Who? When? Where? You won't find an official declaration, consolidated figures, etc…
We all now that the US is a huge market but we're talking "visible" markets here…OK. Visible it be. The invisible doesnt exist I agree. (Looking over shoulder at shadows) :biggrin1:

[TJCoro]

http://houseofsmileys.com/user/img/r08q1013timmo/cartman.gif I'll take two tickets down front and put 100 pesos on Spain, por favor.



They call me :lol: Ray Jay, Ray Jay Coro, and I cut wise around these parts.


http://houseofsmileys.com/user/img/r08q1013timmo/bag.gif Hmmmm! More like you cut cheeze, RJ :laugh:

[tippexx]

I'd dispute that Spain is the biggest market for Habanos. Even Habanos distributors say that the US is the biggest market by a massive difference. (I could be missing something though, as usual).


Well nothing significant Auss, other than they're not supposed to touch them let alone smoke them inside the US. Yet somehow the visible which is invisible does appear to find it's way there.

[Aussiewaz]

LMAO. Find it's way there it does, in vast quantity's. Visible it is not, supposedly, unless you visit US forums that is & read US publications like CA.

Anecdote: How does a US magazine review Cuban cigars from their offices? Weird.

[tippexx]

LMAO. Find it's way there it does, in vast quantity's. Visible it is not, supposedly, unless you visit US forums that is & read US publications like CA.

Anecdote: How does a US magazine review Cuban cigars from their offices? Weird.

Yes, I wondered about that too. Maybe they have to hop into a fishing boat and have an off-shore herf?

Also, for the blindfold test. How do you pretend you don't recognise a Cuaba Salomones .... or does someone have to hold it for them?

[Aussiewaz]

Yes, I wondered about that too. Maybe they have to hop into a fishing boat and have an off-shore herf?

Also, for the blindfold test. How do you pretend you don't recognise a Cuaba Salomones .... or does someone have to hold it for them?Doesnt really matter from what I've heard if you only smoke the first inch. :rofl:

[Flying Cigar]

My apologies – I stupidly copied/pasted an article from the Chamber of Commerce & Industry News Mag, and obviously this figure is the number of cigarettes sold per year.
The number of cigars consumed every year is around 12.000.000 units (probably around 20.000.000 or more in Spain).
I must check articles in cigar magazines, but they're in the attic now… :rolleyes:

Merci bien, Frank - I thought it would be ciggies .......:smile:
You are quite correct about the number of cigars smoked in Spain, last figure I read was about 35 to 40 million a year.

As for the largest market for Cuban cigars .....


I'd dispute that Spain is the biggest market for Habanos. Even Habanos distributors say that the US is the biggest market by a massive difference. (I could be missing something though, as usual).

go on disputing at your risk, undisputed fact is that Spain is the largest market for Habanos SA purchasing ca 40 % of the cuban production :41:
...... it used to be higher than that :cool:

Estimates of Habanos going to the US market range from 10 to 15 % ...

[Flying Cigar]

Some export figures - old :

At least 70 percent of the Cuban cigar exports go to Europe.
The other 30 percent is divided among other world markets, including the Middle East, Asia and <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comhttp://www.ukcigarforums.com/ /><st1:country-region alt=</st1:country-region><ST1:pCanada.
The <st1:country-region w:st="on">U.S.</st1:country-region> trade embargo on communist <st1:country-region w:st="on">Cuba</st1:country-region> prohibits the sale of Cuban cigars in the <st1:country-region w:st="on">United States.</st1:country-region>
Shortly before last year's festival, Habanos <st1:country-region w:st="on">S.A.</st1:country-region>, a mixed enterprise operated 50-50 by the Cuban government and the French-Spanish company Altadis, announced that in 2000 the country had produced 153 million cigars for export, up from 118 million in 1999. Habanos <st1:country-region w:st="on">S.A.</st1:country-region>, which sponsors the festival, has not issued any export figures for the past 12 months.

<O:p</O:p
The Miami Herald
Feb. 27, 2002

And new ( from the Financial Times ) :

<st1:country-region w:st="on"><ST1:pCuba</ST1:p</st1:country-region> cuts cigar output as exports plunge
By Marc Frank in <st1:City w:st="on">Havana</st1:City>
Published: June 21 2010

According to the most recent report released by the government’s statistics office, the industry has fallen on hard times in recent years, with production of cigars for export down from 217m in 2006, to 123m in 2007 and 73m last year as the business drew on its inventory.

Cash-strapped <st1:country-region w:st="on">Cuba</st1:country-region> cut the amount of land devoted to growing its famous tobacco by more than 30 per cent last year.

Sales from cigar exports fell to $218m in 2009, down from $243m in 2008.

Nino

[cohibaIV]

Some export figures - old :

At least 70 percent of the Cuban cigar exports go to Europe.
The other 30 percent is divided among other world markets, including the Middle East, Asia and <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comhttp://www.ukcigarforums.com/ /><st1:country-region alt=</st1:country-region><ST1:pCanada.
The <st1:country-region w:st="on">U.S.</st1:country-region> trade embargo on communist <st1:country-region w:st="on">Cuba</st1:country-region> prohibits the sale of Cuban cigars in the <st1:country-region w:st="on">United States.</st1:country-region>
Shortly before last year's festival, Habanos <st1:country-region w:st="on">S.A.</st1:country-region>, a mixed enterprise operated 50-50 by the Cuban government and the French-Spanish company Altadis, announced that in 2000 the country had produced 153 million cigars for export, up from 118 million in 1999. Habanos <st1:country-region w:st="on">S.A.</st1:country-region>, which sponsors the festival, has not issued any export figures for the past 12 months.

<O:p</O:p
The Miami Herald
Feb. 27, 2002

And new ( from the Financial Times ) :

<st1:country-region w:st="on"><ST1:pCuba</ST1:p</st1:country-region> cuts cigar output as exports plunge
By Marc Frank in <st1:City w:st="on">Havana</st1:City>
Published: June 21 2010

According to the most recent report released by the government’s statistics office, the industry has fallen on hard times in recent years, with production of cigars for export down from 217m in 2006, to 123m in 2007 and 73m last year as the business drew on its inventory.

Cash-strapped <st1:country-region w:st="on">Cuba</st1:country-region> cut the amount of land devoted to growing its famous tobacco by more than 30 per cent last year.

Sales from cigar exports fell to $218m in 2009, down from $243m in 2008.

Nino


The Flying Cigar has spoken....LOL

http://smilys.net/rauchende_smilies/smiley4631.gif

[moidoid]

I was en Bretagne last month, admittedly in a somewhat rural outpost and there were no Cuban cigars on sale in the local tabac. I saw plenty of Dutch, Dominican etc. but was after the elusive French produced Navarre. This costs more than many Cubans and I have never seen one - maybe they are produced in very small quantities - but I have heard of a Robusto and a Grand Corona.

Anyway, the proprietress had never heard of Navarre and thought me a mad Englishman.

[Aussiewaz]

At my risk? OK. On the off chance I may sustain serious personal injury or indeed a premature death, I'll take the risk & wallow in my ignorance happily. http://www.cool-smileys.com/images/126.gif (http://www.cool-smileys.com/smiley-that-says-muhaha)

[Smallclub]

… was after the elusive French produced Navarre. This costs more than many Cubans and I have never seen one -
The Navarre line (robusto, short robusto, double corona) was discontinued in Dec 2009, the company went bankrupt.
Anyway, this robusto was more sold in large restaurants than at tobacconists who, as you said, had never heard of it…
Have no regrets: I tried the robusto and it wasn't good…

Altadis has taken over the company and should re-launch the Navarre in October 2010…
If you can read french: an article (http://www.lepost.fr/article/2010/08/16/2185931_le-tresor-de-navarre-etait-bien-cache.html)

[Flying Cigar]

At my risk? OK. On the off chance I may sustain serious personal injury or indeed a premature death, I'll take the risk & wallow in my ignorance happily. http://www.cool-smileys.com/images/126.gif (http://www.cool-smileys.com/smiley-that-says-muhaha)

Mind over matter ..... :stupid:

[Aussiewaz]

Mind over matter ..... :stupid:Indeed it is. I dont mind and it really does not matter. LOL. :biggrin1:

[Corto Maltese]

This maybe of help to someone out there.
I was in Aix-en-provence yesterday and found a decent cave a cigars in the Tabac, Le Khedive, on the Cours Mirabeau.
Its the main street through town, on the same the side of the road as and near to the famous deux garcons cafe.
The young guy in there, Michael, was very helpfull and seemed to know what he was on about.
Cubans only but an enormous choice.
I walked away with a Hoyo de Monterrey epicure No2 for 10 Euro ( £8.52 ), and smoked it in the cafe with a large scotch that afternoon, and a Cohibe Behike 52 for 27 Euro ( £23.01 ) which is in the Humi for a special occasion.
I don't know how these prices compare but it was a nice suprise for me to find it and I had a lovely, lazy afternoon with the Hoyo.
Corto.

[tippexx]

Not bad prices Corto. Well done mate. The Epi.2 especially was an excellent deal.

UK:-

HdM Epi.2 = 12.19

Behike
52 = 25.99
54 = 33.99
56 = 39.99