Counterfeit Montecristo GR's and Cohiba 1966's...

[monkey66]

I am copying this info (with permission) from ICC forum and Mk05 (original poster) in the general interest of the community. I will not copy the entire thread and will remove actual suppliers (to keep within our rules). Please pm me if you want to know more. I will update the thread as the discussion develops there.

The Monte GR's came from a Spanish on-line supplier with a famous (in the cigar world) director. The current opinion is that they have mixed up real and fake boxes to show legitimacy (an old trick).
NB - this debate is not concluded but too important to not mention. Please read and draw your own opinions.




Counterfeit MGR box cover is stacked on top, authentic Altadis bottom (or authentic is the top of picture and counterfeit is on bottom of picture). Notice the differences in size of the logo by the quarters, and the fleur de lis.
MGR main quarter.jpg

Counterfeit MGR seal stacked on top, authentic EMS on bottom (or authentic is to the left of picture and counterfeit is to the right of the picture). Notice the hologram on counterfeit is longer, and does not sport the cut angled edges.
Auth seal fake on top.jpg

Detail on counterfeit hologram.
auth holo fake.jpg

Detail on EMS hologram
auth holo real Altadis.jpg

MGR from festival
Altadis MGR Heads.jpg

Counterfeit MGR on left, festival MGR on right. This is the headshot. First thing first, the MGRs being rolled in the Upmann factory had very high quality control. The cigars were all to sport pointed tips. No biased roll to the left or right, nor rounded tips. Any deviation from that specific quality control should give away a counterfeit nature. Now notice the bands. The color is off. The fleur de lis is clearly wrong. The concentric circles do not have the indentation.
MGR Cigar Fake vs festival front.jpg

Counterfeit MGR on left, festival MGR on right. This is the side shot. We can now see the waves are farther apart on the counterfeit band. The secondary band's font is chunkier than the authentic example.
MGR Cigar fake vs festival side.jpg

Additional comments 11.19.12:
- What was troubling was that MGRs are known for their very distinctive wrapper hue and quality. They have a very bright, yet a little reddish tint. The MGR wrapper (IMO) varies greatly from any known M2 wrapper. These counterfeits mostly had the wrapper down to the T.
- Tips were all varying in the counterfeits; mostly rounded, but some had a lean to the left or right - albeit sporting the pointed tip. A couple boxes I received almost looked decent enough to pass, but the taper was off. The cone started tightening in too quickly.
- The 6 counterfeit boxes were all over #4500.
- Inner velvet sleeve looked and felt exactly the same, good stitching inside, no differences.
- Box codes on bottom were the exact same as authentic compared to H&F EMS, Altadis, Italian EMS, PCC. SUB OCT/NOV11


Additional comments 11.21.12:
- Although I have not yet seen a squared off hologram on the warranty seal in my own stock, Trevor's site seems to indicate the existence of such a seal: http://cubancigarwebsite.com/common_...w-lg_click.jpg
- The counterfeit MGR warranty seals match the one on CCW
- All 6 boxes of counterfeit MGR sported unique warranty codes, and scanned in with HSA as genuine stock
- Assumption: code entered in HSA site is vlookuped in HSA database, it is not a what the code generates on HSA page and returns on refresh
- Therefore: this must be high level reproduction operation that was done in Cuba


- Supplier claimed to have bought out the rest of Altadis MGRs in Spain, giving him a monopoly in the commodity
- Suplier has a store in Salamanca dropship MGRs instead of sending from his warehouse
- Once caught, Supplier replaces counterfeit with intact, sealed Altadis authentic MGRs from his warehouse
- Why does one send stock from another vendor when he has his own?
- I must conclude this was done with intent

[monkey66]

Real box of 1966 on top and fake box of 1966 on the bottom. Notice hologram width as well as how the real box of 1966's have straight edge corners on the seal and the fake box has more rounded corners on the seal.



Box on left is real, lighter in color. Box on the right is the fake box. The paint fill for the face and lettering is darker on the real box as well.



The top 1966 box is real as you can see by the square edge corners on the seal. Bottom two boxes are fake.



The box code on left is real box and the box code on right is fake. Notice the ink is different?



The real box has more rounded corners while the "fakes" are more rectangular, still rounded but not as much as the real box of 1966's.



The border is engraved clearly on the real box and on the "fake" box it's not engraved very well.

[tippexx]

Good post Monk. Oh for the days when we could shame them eh!

The moral I guess is don't be beguiled by music on a front page, and just because it sounds like not everyone called that is really Zorro.

The sad thing, where there's one almighty clutch of fake boxes there's sure to be others and those only to eager to flog 'em!

[monkey66]

Yup, like the fake Dunhills, Davidoffs, Cohiba EL's and Party EL's before them they will trickle into our collective humidor for years to come

[tippexx]

Not mine Monk. Even at fake prices they'd still be too expensive for me!

[monkey66]

Not mine Monk. Even at fake prices they'd still be too expensive for me!

My fear is with swaps, splits, MAW's, bombs etc they spread round like STD's.

[larrysputnik]

Thank you monkey66 for adding this. Some of us get comfortable with where we buy to the point that we are not as vigilant as we should be. It is a sobering reminder, when something like counterfeits is brought back into the discussion, that we need to be educated consumers. It's also a testament to the UKCF that this forum is a leader in sharing information on cigar lifestyle because we stick to our standards not to "name and shame" companies when this happens. We are far more powerful to know what to look for rather than to believe who to look out for. Thank you for your insight. I, for one, have re-checked my humidor for obvious, and not-so-obvious, signs of fraud, as this post has brought me to the realization that I have taken some recent orders for granted.

[JOAO LA PEZ]

Here in the UK we have nothing to worry about with H&F guarding the door against this sort of thing.

[Ethem]

This is a fantastic post monkey! Thank you.

[tippexx]

Here in the UK we have nothing to worry about with H&F guarding the door against this sort of thing.

Yes, and Distributors in other countries guard the doors to theirs JLP. But this isn't about distributors, it's about vendors and that fakes either deliberately or inadvertently can become part of their stock.

These cigars will go back to the vendor in question and hopefully the blokes on the other board should get their money back. The cigars however are NOT going to be destroyed, the vendor will in all likelihood put them back on a shelf to await new eager buyers looking for a bargain.

The other board got lucky in that it was a group buy and there was the opportunity to see several boxes side by side and to notice the discrepancies, (although even that wasn't immediate). I think a lot of people receiving just one box would be fooled. Although why anyone would want to buy Cohiba 1966 is another story.

[JOAO LA PEZ]

Yes, and Distributors in other countries guard the doors to theirs JLP. But this isn't about distributors, it's about vendors and that fakes either deliberately or inadvertently can become part of their stock.

These cigars will go back to the vendor in question and hopefully the blokes on the other board should get their money back. The cigars however are NOT going to be destroyed, the vendor will in all likelihood put them back on a shelf to await new eager buyers looking for a bargain.

The other board got lucky in that it was a group buy and there was the opportunity to see several boxes side by side and to notice the discrepancies, (although even that wasn't immediate). I think a lot of people receiving just one box would be fooled. Although why anyone would want to buy Cohiba 1966 is another story.

Good point about Vendors, do you think I am safe fakes with my Quintero's and Chichalero's, .

[tippexx]

Good point about Vendors, do you think I am safe fakes with my Quintero's and Chichalero's, .

About as safe as you might be with Golden Virginia or Silk Cut. If something's fakeable someone will consider faking it.

[El Catador]

do you think I am safe fakes with my Quintero's and Chichalero's, .

Fear not Brother.. fake Quintero's are easy to spot.
(they taste better).



Mind you, I got caught out myself last week by a dog rocket wrapped in toilet paper.
Guy in the shop said it was called a Fonseca..

Still.. the cigar may have been crap, but at least the paper came in useful.

[Puff Scotty]

The same 'vendor' has been distributing counterfeits to my knowledge since 2000...perhaps if we climbed out of our 'holier than thou' attitude & did name & shame it would put arseholes like him out of business & protect the newcomer to cigars....

[TJCoro]

Those were the days!

...perhaps if we climbed out of our 'holier than thou' attitude & did name & shame it would put arseholes like him out of business & protect the newcomer to cigars....

Wouldn't it be nice....






Bag Boy