Euthanasia anyone?

[Simon Bolivar]

So as I mentioned on another thread, my Mother-in-law was 'put to sleep' last week, at her request. Holland & Belgium have a law allowing Euthinasia these days but only Holland has one for Assisted Suicide; the Belgian law specifically exculdes assisted sucicide.

To be eligible for euthinasia in Belgium you have to be a resident (she was), terminally ill (she wasn't) &/or suffering unbearable physical or mental pain (I don't believe she forfilled either of these requirements). She did see three doctors & one agreed she had no quality of life despite being in a good nursing home & having family visit her 5-6 days a week. What she was was 'tired of life' & felt a burden to her family. Despite her family reassuring her otherwise, they agreed to let the doctor go ahead, on the basis it was what she wanted but what it actually was IMO, was assisted suicide. When I pointed this out & the fact that they were asking the doctor to risk fines, imprisonment & loss of medical licence it fell on deaf ears. I had to give up or fall out irrevacably with my family.

As a medic I had many problems understanding & accepting this outcome & was very disappointed that I couldn't change even my wife's or daughters opinion. In the previous week, she had been taken to the seaside & had a pancake, went to her favourite resturant & visited the church she wished to have her funneral at. All this was achieved in an ordinary car & not an ambulance. She enjoyed the time out, as she enjoyed the time when her family visited. Putting aside my religious convictions & just taking it from the medical aspect, I cannot believe the state should be sanctioning or asking doctors to do this (they do have the right to refuse - as one of the three did) & sincerely hope we resist changing the law in Britian as there have been recent pleas to do so. This really is an ethical & moral minefield that I believe most UK medical staff wouldn't want to be involved in.

I was just wondering if any one had experience of euthinasia or assisted suicide & their thoughts on it. You of course can PM if you'd find that easier.

[cj121]

Simon, I read your post earlier and really did wonder when you typed "put down", whether it was a case of euthanasia. I'm on the phone here so any three liner won't really do your post justice. However, briefly, I think it has its place in end of life care for some, but the deeply personal criteria and thresholds obviously need to be very tightly regulated. I don't think we shall see it in the UK. Thank you for taking the time to share this emotive account.

[butternutsquashpie]

G'day Simon,
Firstly, i do offer my condolences to you as you seem quite emotional about this issue. I hope my lowly sympathy can help in any way, shape, of form.

Following that up, with the information you gave us, it does seem that it was, in her mind, euthanasia. It seemed to her that, like you said, she was causing a burden amongst the family members and troubling them. In that sense, once she had the blessings of your various family members (if i understood it correctly as you attempted to dissuade your immediate family members?), it seems that she could let herself go sooner and "easier" than if she could naturally. I think she would've surpassed the guilt and saw that it would harm your family less to end it on a happy note (with all the favourite events in her life that you listed), thereby, justifying it.

The social and moral side is just that. You are not simply yourself, as no man is an island. Just as you said, she is YOUR mother-in-law. She is your wife'S mother. She is your daughter's grandmother. She has possessive articles preceding her everytime. Therefore, she belongs to everyone. It is wrong to take away another's possession without permission. To cut yourself off from everyone is to be selfish and destructive as you're burning every bridge connected to you. It seems that she tried to allow herself to be give up as the bridges connected to everyone were doing more harm than good. She saw herself suffering and she needed a way to cut off the connections less painfully for everyone. And she decided on that, in my honest opinion.
Technically, if one relinquishes control over an object and another takes it, it is no longer stealing. In the same way that one's various family members can accept that a loss is better if they all agree on giving it up at a specific, planned moment. OF course, not everyone might agree (sometimes society does not wish to let go of it'S citizen), but in the end, no option can satisfy everyone, and one person does have the ultimate decision to do what they think is right. For everyone.

The political side is always a tad cloudy and not everyone will agree with what I propose(d). But Belgium's law and pre-requisites seem incredibly reasonable to me. I believe the UK should follow Belgium's example on the matter as it would alleviate things i read in the paper a few months ago like: A man being denied Justified Euthanasia (tear-jerking moments ensue) . However, like you said, it doesn't match her level of discomfort and like you said again, wouldn't be legal in the UK. However, i think that the doctors might've made a tad of a flaw there with the inappropriate title given to her.
Ultimately, it becomes a battle of "How much freedoms should we allocate to an individual." If you were to go by my moral and social justification, it seems that there should be a reasonable amount of consent within the community and family that passing one away is a reasonable option for the SPECIFIC case. But then stems the question: what is "reasonable"?

Anyways, I hope my words haven't brought up too many a troubling memories, seeing how it is so early. I am just hoping to help you make sense of some things you might be on the fence about and help you through it anyway i can now.

My sincerest,

Jeremy

[Simon Bolivar]

Hi CJ, thanks for your thoughts & Jeremy, many thanks for your thoughtful & considered response. I will think about my reply alittle longer at it's late now, I'll try tomorrow. There is a connection between Mother-in-Law & Canadians which might amuse you.

[butternutsquashpie]

I will think about my reply alittle longer at it's late now, I'll try tomorrow.

Naturally

I was glad i could offer any sort of response. And I'm sure it will be quite interesting given my weird, unexplained sense of national pride . Do let me know though, on a fitting day tomorrow: Canadian Independence Day (July 1st)

[Simon Bolivar]

Hi Jeremy, Canadian Indepence Day? I guess that was independance from the Brits? And presumably the French? Sure there's an interesting story on how they came up with a single date for that, guessing the date the last colonial power quit?
Anyway, for yrs Mother-in law & I had a running battle about who's troops releaved Antwerp during WWII. I knew it was the Brit's as I had been to the 50th Anniversary of the relief of Antwerp, to comemorate when the Brit Tanks came through the tunnels under the Schedle, lead by Edward Heath, later Prime Minister who signed so many of our rights away to the EU. He atteneded that event.

She always instested it was the Canadians that had saved her. So eventually I found out the truth at a musuem exibition. The Brits were the first into Antwerp & releaved 90% of it but there was a pocket of resistance in the suburb of Merksem, where some hard core SS & other German troops were holding up. Due to the need to keep advancing (Market Garden, Bridge too Far ect), the Brits went around Merksem & left it for the Canadians to sort out several weeks later. This required buiding pontoons across the Albert kanal & must have been a bit of a nightmare.
Mother had spent most of the war in the cellars hioding from the German soldiers, she was 18yo in '45. So when the Canadians marched down her road you can imagine how impressed she was, infact for a while she had a Canadian boyfriend! So I had to apologise to her, she was right after all. Of course the Canadians were in Belgium before during WWI & I have seen many of their graves in the cemeteries around the Menin Gate.

I think these formative yrs had a very prolonged effect on her, she never mixed socially, her family didn't really have any friends & just a couple of neighbours were well known. She was convinced there were dangers hidden everywhere & managed to pass this on to most of her daughters. This meant when her husband died she didn't really have any support system besides her daughters, one never really saw her again after her father's funeral, two others fell out & wouldn't be in the same room as each other & my wife was left to be the main contact & carer, as the youngest & a nurse.

When Mother's falls became to much to cope with she had to go into the nursing home. She didn't want to go but she couldn't be left alone & needed 24hr care. Unfortunatley once in the home she isolated herself, only leaving her room once a week to play bingo. If she had taken her meals with the other residents & got invovled with other activities I think she would have built up a nework of support there so she would have had other residents popping in to see her instead of sitting behind a closed door everyday, relying only on her family for social contact outside of the nursing staff.


To cover my earlier post, The only real consolation for me is that Mother definately wanted to die & repeatedly stated this over 6/12 period. My point is that we as a family as the staff failed her in not managing to make her feel needed & that she wasn't a burden to us.

One of the serious problems with this Euthinasia law is that there will be those who chose this path to save their family the cost of their nursing home bills. In Belgium this is E4-500PW, In England there has been a debate for yrs about whether you should have to sell your home to cover your nursing homes fees, rather than being able to leave the house or the lump sum when it's sold to your family. In Belgium they went that way many yrs ago & a significant stage furhter. If/when your savings run out, after selling your home (this is compulsory if your spouse isn't still living in it), they will go to your children to pay your bills. Unless you are on social benefits, you will be paying seval hundred euros a month, significantly more if your an only child.

It's to avoid this burden that I think will encourage some that their family would be better off without them & request euthinasia.


One final point, it wasn't appropriate in Mother's case but Belgium has very little in the way of Hospice care. In the Euthanisa debate prior to the law being passed this was discussed & acknowledged that where there is high quality hospice care, very few people requested euthinaisa but it was acknowleded by parliment that Hospice care was very expensive & the people wanted this law.

As you can see, although these things in individual cases can be understandable, the picture as a whole is a debate that all countires will have to face in the near future as we have such a large aging populations.

[butternutsquashpie]

Well we just call it Canada day (since 1980s. Before then, we called it "Dominion Day." Ya know, the Dominion of Canada and what not?) and actually, a mate of mine (who says it's the most important day of the year for her DESPITE her birthday falling on Christmas day) calls it confederation day. So take what you can from the meaning of those alternate names. The day we technically separated form the UK and started to make our own decisions and political choices.
Take it through this metaphor: It's the day the teenager bought his own apartment and moved out of his parent's basement. He still has connections and wishes to seek advice on various things in life (like the governor general signing all our changes to the law) and the parents visit occasionally (like when the queen comes along with her family), but he has become independent by societal standards and is mature enough to make his own decisions.

And that's actually quite nice. We never get too many merits placed upon us in WWII except the capturing of one D-Day beach and some various small villas in Italia which we took over. But other than that, we just mixed with the Brits and Yanks and just fought for the sake of ending Fascism without need for credit. WWI was more exciting for our history.

But what happened is a shame. I'm sorry for all that happening. But I can also see her influencing the decision. Like you mentioned, your wife was OK with giving her the freedom to leave. Seeing that she was the only caregiver to your mother-in-law, it was quite reasonable to assume that she saw it as a final peace and end. All I can really wish for now is that she ended it the way she wanted to: planned and all ends tied. With all the ends being all her relatives and family members accepting of the situation at hand as well.



Your dilemma reaches far beyond our Canadian one. Us Canucks have universal health care meaning we don't have to personally pay out or our pockets for the retirement homes, coma beds, cancer treatments, etc if we or our family members need them. I didn't actually think of paying for healthcare in comas or hospital beds and all as I come from countries that do not require money out of pocket for these matters.
Even as I type this, my grandfather is lying in a bed on the Chinese motherland recovering from a gullbladder inflection. This happened one week prior the my father having infected alveolis in his lungs which burst a hold in his left lung. In both cases, in both countries, we did not need to pay a single dime to the Canadian or Chinese governments for their hospilitasation of 5, 20+ days, respectively.

It seems that euthanasia is a better choice for all these other countries that REQUIRE funds out of your own pocket. And to the point, like you said, of giving out various belongings like your house to pay for the expenses. I've personally never had this happen to me, nor do i know of any person with the situation of needing money for medical bills, so i guess I can't speak at all for any of these situations unless they are from a tactical point of view, which is ignoring all the emotional and spiritual trauma that can ensue.

And like the tactical side goes, you are right in the incoming wave of baby boomers who will start needing housing and medical support in the Western (and possibly Eastern) world. Let's see where the issue can be tackled from in years to come. Also, it again becomes the debate of Euthanesia VS Assisted Suicide. One can't measure pain objectively so we would have to draw a fine line on a case by case basis.. That is quite unfortunate, but then again, is it truly better for both to be legalised? If so, what are the justifications for assisted suicide?? To be honest, I'm not ever completely sure about the laws and regulations here, but i would imagine it to be a lot stingier as we do not need to worry too much about expenses in the hospitals..... Yet.