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TonyN
05-12-2014, 10:47 AM
A new law has come into force which makes the legal drink-drive limit in Scotland lower than elsewhere in the UK.
The change reduces the legal alcohol limit from 80mg to 50mg in every 100ml of blood.

Wonder if england will follow in their laws.

PeeJay
05-12-2014, 10:49 AM
Doesn't that bring them in line with most of the rest of Europe? If so we will surely soon bend over and comply.

TonyN
05-12-2014, 10:52 AM
Funny you should say that peejay was thinking the same while putting this post up.

PeeJay
05-12-2014, 10:57 AM
Its not a bad thing in this case. It should be zero with some sort of consideration for medical conditions. That would remove any grey areas from the law and actually make it easier for the public to understand.

SmokeyDave
05-12-2014, 11:13 AM
Agree with you there PeeJay, just make it zero and you wouldn't get people thinking "I'm fine after two pints" and risking it.

cigarmo
05-12-2014, 11:18 AM
I wonder if everyone in Glasgow will get banned:p

Simon G
05-12-2014, 11:19 AM
A new law has come into force which makes the legal drink-drive limit in Scotland lower than elsewhere in the UK.
The change reduces the legal alcohol limit from 80mg to 50mg in every 100ml of blood.
Wonder if england will follow in their laws.

"Per every 100ml of blood"

How do they know how many ml/blood a person has in total?

--- via blood test?

Apologies for the possible stupid question :lol:

But how much is that exactly: half a pint of beer?

Wigan
05-12-2014, 11:28 AM
I thought it was intended as zero. Not as people currently take it that your ok to have one. The tiny amount we are allowed is to cover medical conditions, accuracy of testing and interestingly other methods of ingesting alcohol other than drinking. If you need to regularly use alcohol rinse during the day at work the new reduced limits could mean you are potentially over the limit without touching a drop

PeeJay
05-12-2014, 11:31 AM
"Per every 100ml of blood"

How do they know how many ml/blood a person has in total?

--- via blood test?

Apologies for the possible stupid question :lol:

But how much is that exactly: half a pint of beer?

There are too many variables to give an exact amount eg your physical size, whether you have eaten etc

ValeTudoGuy
05-12-2014, 11:48 AM
It will hardly be enforced in rural areas yet it makes having a beer with your lunch a risk so no more pub lunches I.e. No point going out for one.... Stupid law IMO.

PeeJay
05-12-2014, 11:50 AM
It will hardly be enforced in rural areas yet it makes having a beer with your lunch a risk so no more pub lunches I.e. No point going out for one.... Stupid law IMO.

On yer bike?

ValeTudoGuy
05-12-2014, 11:58 AM
On yer bike?

Wish me luck getting the Mrs and two kids on it.

PeeJay
05-12-2014, 12:07 PM
Wish me luck getting the Mrs and two kids on it.

You don't need to, she can drive

ValeTudoGuy
05-12-2014, 12:14 PM
You don't need to, she can drive

Not with epilepsy she can't.

PeeJay
05-12-2014, 12:20 PM
Not with epilepsy she can't.

Damn, must be bad if she's not allowed to drive. Sorry to hear that.

ValeTudoGuy
05-12-2014, 12:28 PM
It's ok, I'm used to being the bus. It's just a ball ache when I finish at 1 or 2am and I'm still up at 6:45 to get her to work and the kids to nursery.

ValeTudoGuy
05-12-2014, 12:32 PM
Back on this law though, it just seems like the average person is yet again being punished by having one of life's simple pleasures removed. Obviously this is just the way I see it.

Im sick of all this crap, sugar and chocolate taxes etc. etc... Next will be red meat, then coffee... They won't be happy until we are good little robots, sat at home only interacting via the computer, not crossing roads because it's expensive if someone gets run over, eating only celery because it's expensive if someone gets dietary issues. Blah blah blah.... Rant over

:tongue:

PeeJay
05-12-2014, 12:36 PM
We're not biting because we know you know the true cost of drink driving. With you on all the other nanny state rant though. Marks and Spencers used to make wonderful French bread till they took the salt out, tastes of nothing now!

ValeTudoGuy
05-12-2014, 12:45 PM
Man, Salt.... One of the most important dietary supplements for mammals.... Yet we can't be trusted to control our own intake.... What I would give for a pre salt reduced Chicken and Mushroom pot noodle.

Sligub
05-12-2014, 12:50 PM
As my work limit is still half the new limit it really doesn't bother me that much, The don't use zero because the body naturally produces a small amount of alcohol and with our limit people occasionally blow over because of listerine.

Wigan
05-12-2014, 01:00 PM
The don't use zero because the body naturally produces a small amount of alcohol and with our limit people occasionally blow over because of listerine.


Yeah kinda what I was saying. Read a story about NHS workers who are required to use alcohol rinse every time enter a patients room being close with the OLD limit as over the day it had soaked in through skin and into blood stream

Makaron
05-12-2014, 01:41 PM
Yeah kinda what I was saying. Read a story about NHS workers who are required to use alcohol rinse every time enter a patients room being close with the OLD limit as over the day it had soaked in through skin and into blood stream

Alcohol gel used in hospitals is not based on ethanol but isopropanol.

PeeJay
05-12-2014, 01:46 PM
Alcohol gel used in hospitals is not based on ethanol but isopropanol.

Croydon General had a problem with street drinkers coming in an emptying their gel dispensers till they changed to a non-alcoholic one

Makaron
05-12-2014, 01:48 PM
Back on this law though, it just seems like the average person is yet again being punished by having one of life's simple pleasures removed. Obviously this is just the way I see it.

Im sick of all this crap, sugar and chocolate taxes etc. etc... Next will be red meat, then coffee... They won't be happy until we are good little robots, sat at home only interacting via the computer, not crossing roads because it's expensive if someone gets run over, eating only celery because it's expensive if someone gets dietary issues. Blah blah blah.... Rant over

:tongue:

You can drink as much as you wish and as often as you want. No one is trying to limit you right to consume alcohol, just alter your behaviour after you drink some alcohol. Please don't drive after you have some alcohol, because you potentially can limit my or my family right to healthy life.

Makaron
05-12-2014, 01:56 PM
Croydon General had a problem with street drinkers coming in an emptying their gel dispensers till they changed to a non-alcoholic one

Smells very similar to ethanol, so I am not surprised. I saw myself patients attempting to drink it.... good old days when I was working on A&E

sheppsea
05-12-2014, 02:09 PM
No one is trying to limit you right to consume alcohol, just alter your behaviour after you drink some alcohol.

Very eloquently put and I couldn't agree more! :thumb:

ValeTudoGuy
05-12-2014, 03:30 PM
You can drink as much as you wish and as often as you want. No one is trying to limit you right to consume alcohol, just alter your behaviour after you drink some alcohol. Please don't drive after you have some alcohol, because you potentially can limit my or my family right to healthy life.

I Will continue my one pint under 4% self imposed rule until the law changes. I have never been in any form of car accident and have never felt impaired..... But any time any of us get behind a wheel of a vehicle we could potentially affect someone else's right to life and that ain't gonna change with this law.

TonyN
05-12-2014, 04:37 PM
Bloke on the radio today said years ago there was this program called tomorrows world,they invented this car that everytime you got in
you had to blow in this tube if it showed we been drinking when turning egnition on the engine woulden't start.
Now to me that would be a good idea for our safety and others on the road if every new car had this gadget.

ValeTudoGuy
05-12-2014, 04:48 PM
Yet they allow the sale of cheap shite tires...

Vilify people who are responsible yet have a small amount of alcohol and drive, what next? Can't take medicine and drive? Can't drive if your a bit under the wether? Install sleep monitors in everyone's bed to make sure they had a good nights sleep else they have to stay at home? Can't drive On a full stomach incase your too lethargic? Can't drive if you just had an argument with the Mrs? Can't drive home from work if you had a stressful day?

Well I just hope you all do your thorough vehicle safety checks before EVERY journey....

Wigan
05-12-2014, 04:48 PM
Bloke on the radio today said years ago there was this program called tomorrows world,they invented this car that everytime you got in
you had to blow in this tube if it showed we been drinking when turning egnition on the engine woulden't start.
Now to me that would be a good idea for our safety and others on the road if every new car had this gadget.


You telling me you don't remember Tomorrows World yourself???

TonyN
05-12-2014, 04:52 PM
I remember it alright too long in the tooth
ramond baxter.

Wigan
05-12-2014, 04:56 PM
They should start showing repeats of that see how close they got it.

Only instead of the word close, read the word wrong lol

dmacleod28
05-12-2014, 04:59 PM
have to say i agree with the law change

ValeTudoGuy
05-12-2014, 05:00 PM
Oh and I forgot the biggie for us, better not get behind the wheel after a Cigar... we don't know how bad that nicotine might hit us!

PeeJay
05-12-2014, 05:02 PM
That's why you can get a Bentley with a humidor in the back, someone else drives.

sheppsea
05-12-2014, 05:44 PM
Just found this interesting article on the causes of road accidents:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/road-safety/8702111/How-do-accidents-happen.html

I didn't see 'tobacco use' as a major cause of fatal road accidents ;), and problems with the road and vehicle account for a small percentage. There are clearly a number of other areas that cause more accidents than Alcohol, but from that list it strikes me as
the most easily preventable and removing the grey area that 'you'll be okay after one' removes the any doubt and temptation - I doubt many people who cause accidents after drink got in the car thinking they weren't okay to drive

The fact is if you want to go for a drink you don't have to drive there, you can get a taxi if its that far

PeeJay
05-12-2014, 05:46 PM
I had to do an analysis years ago on causation factors at a big junction on the A23 in Croydon and the most common cause of collisions was changing lanes or direction of travel. Basically just not looking.

SmokeyDave
05-12-2014, 05:55 PM
I stopped riding my motorcycle to work after having so many near misses of people changing lane right into where I was, 90% of those people when I looked in were on their mobile phone.

PeeJay
05-12-2014, 05:59 PM
I stopped riding my motorcycle to work after having so many near misses of people changing lane right into where I was, 90% of those people when I looked in were on their mobile phone.

Seeing someone in an expensive car obviously fitted with hands free kit with their mobile in their hand really pisses me off

ValeTudoGuy
05-12-2014, 06:00 PM
Just found this interesting article on the causes of road accidents:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/road-safety/8702111/How-do-accidents-happen.html

I didn't see 'tobacco use' as a major cause of fatal road accidents ;)

But your figures mean nothing, how many people fron the entire group we're tested for nicotine levels?

ValeTudoGuy
05-12-2014, 06:08 PM
P.s.... phones not posting smilies.

PeeJay
05-12-2014, 06:17 PM
P.s.... phones not posting smilies.

I recognised the bait without a smiley lure despite my tired eyes Marc :biggrin1:

sheppsea
05-12-2014, 06:21 PM
But your figures mean nothing, how many people fron the entire group we're tested for nicotine levels?

That was a joke, but clearly nicotine use isn't a problem (or at least a big enough problem), so it isn't felt necessary to test for it

The point was that of the causes of road accidents listed, I thought drink driving was the most easily preventable, and I don't think the grey area that you can have a little to drink helps the problem

Edamski
05-12-2014, 06:21 PM
My understanding on the current drink drive levels are roughly 2 units. (obviously variences in peoples blood levels and food intake etc)

If this is true it scares me how many people think it's two pints which is closer to 5 units with how strong most of it is these days.

Let alone the morning after drivers.

A reduction in the limit won't change peoples lack of education. Most of the "adverts" to warn you of the dangers to drink drive use scare tactics rather than actual education.

PeeJay
05-12-2014, 06:23 PM
My ex-brother in law lost his licence to two pints of Stella the morning after

ValeTudoGuy
05-12-2014, 07:48 PM
Yet I have seen a traffic officer blow clear On 4 pints of mild for a laugh on a night out.

cj121
05-12-2014, 08:14 PM
Late in in this one, but I'd imagine lowering the limit as proposed will also equate to increased revenue for the authorities as people creep over the limit. Apart from the health and safety element, what an earner ay?:eviltongue:

PeeJay
05-12-2014, 08:28 PM
Yet I have seen a traffic officer blow clear On 4 pints of mild for a laugh on a night out.

Ditto, MLW blew clear after several drinks when we stopped at my old garage to let her try a breath test.

Simon Bolivar
05-12-2014, 08:42 PM
I am against drink driving & the carnage it has caused over the yrs & for those of us with a few yrs under our belts, will realise just how far we have come in changing the social acceptability of drink driving. At one time a very large proportion of the population would have done it regularly & with their kids in the car too.

The chief cop interviewed in Scotland today, said 10 people had been killed in Drink Driving incidents in the last 12months, which is 10 too many for sure. But what I haven't seen is how many of those 10 were killed by someone driving between 50 & 80mgs? Because that's the difference this law will make. I suspect most drivers who kill behind the wheel are well over the 80mg. Supposing there was just one killed within the 50-80mgs, a tradegy for the family for sure but will the resulting changes to our society be out of proportion to that single death?

Yes, they have this lower limit in Europe (inc Belgium) but the difference is, like any other law, the chose how to enforce it & frankly it's a joke. Belgium are way behind us in the unsociability of drink driving & although you'll never see a Belgian falling down drunk in the street, it's easy enough to see them get in their cars after 2 or 3 Duvels at 8.5%!

I think the biggest area this will catch people out is driving in the morning after drinking the night before. And considering we drive nearly everyday we are not just talking about Monday morning. If you have an accident in the morning now they will test you but I suspect many more will be caught from now on in Scotland.

Country pubs & resturants will be hit, I never have more than one small glass of wine when I have to drive home but I would rather not bother if I couldn't have one. Those who are caught as this moderate level over will be facing high penalties on insurance & points. Are they really worse than those using their phones in the car, texting or smoking with their kids in the back? I ask this because if you stand by the kerb for 20mins in the UK, I bet you can count at least 20-30% of drivers will be holding their phone as they negotiate traffic & how often do they get stopped? If the police wanted to & the fine was changed to 1,000 ( sounds crazy? Fine for not having a National Fishing Licence in England & Wales is up to 2,500 - no one has been hurt & the British anglers at least are even putting the fish back so no damage done, yet somehow this totlaly out of proportion fine was passed into law), for every time you were caught using the phone whilst the car was moving, let alone stationary with the engine running, I bet this reckless habit would end very quickly once those who were caught were convicted & people could see there was a high risk of being caught. I saw a programme which showed using the phone was more hazardous than having had a drink.

Perhaps we should concentrate more on enforcing the laws we have that criminalising even larger sections of the public.

PeeJay
05-12-2014, 08:47 PM
Well said Simon but at the end of the day they want to be another country where I don't live so they can get on with it. I also don't drink so I don't give a toss!

ValeTudoGuy
05-12-2014, 08:48 PM
Wow, who knew horse riding was as dangerous and addictive as ecstasy!? (Insert big appropriate smiley.)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/4537874/Ecstasy-no-more-dangerous-than-horse-riding.html

ValeTudoGuy
05-12-2014, 09:00 PM
In all seriousness now, I really do agree Simon. My issue is mostly related to how many people Will be criminalized that are currently innocent. I think it's important to see how many accidents involve people between the two figures... I would also love to know how many people currently unknowingly drive regularly of a morning under the current rate but over the proposed? My guess is millions every month and I also bet that the accident rate for those millions is proportionally less than total accidents in supermarket car parks.

Obviously I have no data to back my suppositions up.... but my point is, you shouldn't just throw some half arsed stats around and start outlawing things..... yet that's apparently what we do as a society.

PeeJay
05-12-2014, 09:02 PM
you shouldn't just throw some half arsed stats around and start outlawing things..... yet that's apparently what we do as a society.

Yep, with you on that one

sheppsea
05-12-2014, 09:36 PM
Just to be clear the reason I posted the arcticle wasn't to use the stats to prove the point that drink driving limit should be lowered (to be honest it didn't even show that drink driving was particularly high on the list of causes, I'm sure there would be better ones out there if I wanted to do that), it was primarily to give a background to the causes of road accidents and of the fact that drink driving is one that can be easier prevented than the others, and also, having read VTG's post about how we should do a safety checks on our cars everytime we drive, being interested to see how many accidents are actually caused by that

PeeJay
05-12-2014, 09:46 PM
having read VTG's post about how we should do a safety checks on our cars everytime we drive, being interested to see how many accidents are actually caused by that

Probably a lot less than you'd expect. When I started out as a traffic cop we used to spend all day stopping defective vehicles. You used to see traffic bikes passing slowly alongside queues of traffic looking at tyres for example. By the time I left the department 18 years later we were hardly doing anyone for defective vehicles due to the constant tightening up with of the MOT test. Obviously there will always be drivers who don't give a shit but they are few and far between nowadays especially as the MOT certificate is now stored electronically and checkable on PNC.

rascal
05-12-2014, 10:08 PM
Probably a lot less than you'd expect. When I started out as a traffic cop we used to spend all day stopping defective vehicles. You used to see traffic bikes passing slowly alongside queues of traffic looking at tyres for example. By the time I left the department 18 years later we were hardly doing anyone for defective vehicles due to the constant tightening up with of the MOT test. Obviously there will always be drivers who don't give a shit but they are few and far between nowadays especially as the MOT certificate is now stored electronically and checkable on PNC.

I think mark was meaning the basics like clean windows, mirrors water in your schooshers, tyres that are not flat, bulged. All your fluids. The clapped out vehicles are less and less on the road but most of the safety things are not even not issues. Or can easily happen the day after a mot. I personally don't agree with the lower limit as a way to save lives stop the idiots and inept driving would be a lot better.

Wigan
06-12-2014, 04:00 AM
I am against drink driving & the carnage it has caused over the yrs & for those of us with a few yrs under our belts, will realise just how far we have come in changing the social acceptability of drink driving. At one time a very large proportion of the population would have done it regularly & with their kids in the car too.

The chief cop interviewed in Scotland today, said 10 people had been killed in Drink Driving incidents in the last 12months, which is 10 too many for sure. But what I haven't seen is how many of those 10 were killed by someone driving between 50 & 80mgs? Because that's the difference this law will make. I suspect most drivers who kill behind the wheel are well over the 80mg. Supposing there was just one killed within the 50-80mgs, a tradegy for the family for sure but will the resulting changes to our society be out of proportion to that single death?

Yes, they have this lower limit in Europe (inc Belgium) but the difference is, like any other law, the chose how to enforce it & frankly it's a joke. Belgium are way behind us in the unsociability of drink driving & although you'll never see a Belgian falling down drunk in the street, it's easy enough to see them get in their cars after 2 or 3 Duvels at 8.5%!

I think the biggest area this will catch people out is driving in the morning after drinking the night before. And considering we drive nearly everyday we are not just talking about Monday morning. If you have an accident in the morning now they will test you but I suspect many more will be caught from now on in Scotland.

Country pubs & resturants will be hit, I never have more than one small glass of wine when I have to drive home but I would rather not bother if I couldn't have one. Those who are caught as this moderate level over will be facing high penalties on insurance & points. Are they really worse than those using their phones in the car, texting or smoking with their kids in the back? I ask this because if you stand by the kerb for 20mins in the UK, I bet you can count at least 20-30% of drivers will be holding their phone as they negotiate traffic & how often do they get stopped? If the police wanted to & the fine was changed to 1,000 ( sounds crazy? Fine for not having a National Fishing Licence in England & Wales is up to 2,500 - no one has been hurt & the British anglers at least are even putting the fish back so no damage done, yet somehow this totlaly out of proportion fine was passed into law), for every time you were caught using the phone whilst the car was moving, let alone stationary with the engine running, I bet this reckless habit would end very quickly once those who were caught were convicted & people could see there was a high risk of being caught. I saw a programme which showed using the phone was more hazardous than having had a drink.

Perhaps we should concentrate more on enforcing the laws we have that criminalising even larger sections of the public.

HHmm Duvel....

Edamski
06-12-2014, 04:57 AM
Now people driving whilst using their phones is a real big bear of mine and I'm seeing it more and more.

Just tonight on the way to work on the motorway I saw one lad phone in hand leaning on his window sill and with his other hand rubbing his face. It baffles me

PeeJay
06-12-2014, 08:25 AM
Now people driving whilst using their phones is a real big bear of mine and I'm seeing it more and more.

Just tonight on the way to work on the motorway I saw one lad phone in hand leaning on his window sill and with his other hand rubbing his face. It baffles me

Especially as even MLW's Fiesta has a hands free set up, its sheer bloody laziness and lack of sense.

Simon Bolivar
06-12-2014, 09:03 AM
Blowing into the tube to start the car would save the danger of drink driving without the increased policing & fines of the current system & yes Tony, I remember this too. I think they have such devices in the States for ex Drink Driving offenders. Guess it's only the cost that prohibits the manufacturers from fitting as standard.

ValeTudoGuy
06-12-2014, 09:03 AM
But I won't catch up to PJ if I can't post while I'm driving!........... Joke.


The penalty for phone use should be much harsher IMO.

dmacleod28
06-12-2014, 10:10 AM
i still dont understand why your not allowed to use your phone but you can play around with an mp3 player or sat nav surly this is just as dangerous

ValeTudoGuy
06-12-2014, 11:27 AM
While you are technically correct that the law specific to phones revolves around using it for the act off communication which effectively separates it from the other items you pointed out.... They would still be covered as still are phones under the wider law of driving without due care and attention.
People have and continue to be reprimanded under this law for those actions.

In Lancashire we have something called operation pathway which involves plain clothes spotters and uniform trap teams. I have personally dealt with people for all of these issues in addition to reading books/papers while driving and eating/drinking while driving.

TonyN
06-12-2014, 08:22 PM
Blowing into the tube to start the car would save the danger of drink driving without the increased policing & fines of the current system & yes Tony, I remember this too. I think they have such devices in the States for ex Drink Driving offenders. Guess it's only the cost that prohibits the manufacturers from fitting as standard.

Think they should fit them in thats the only way to stop drink drivers killing innocent people.

rascal
06-12-2014, 08:34 PM
Think they should fit them in thats the only way to stop drink drivers killing innocent people.

And they won't be as easy to fool as filling a ballon with air before you go in the pub? Think that's why you will never see them fitted mainstream as there really not much a determent

Ross.Co
06-12-2014, 08:46 PM
DO NOT CONSUME ALCOHOL AND DRIVE.

Simple.

If you do, kill yourself and no one else. Twice I have nearly been killed by drink drivers - Once on a bike and once in a car. One of them I knocked the fuck out after I crawled out of my friends car that was upside down. If I had known JB was dead I would of stamped on the cunts face. 4 friends got into a car, 3 made it out. RIP JB.

TonyN
06-12-2014, 09:11 PM
DO NOT CONSUME ACOLHOL AND DRIVE.+1

dmacleod28
07-12-2014, 12:16 AM
DO NOT CONSUME ACOLHOL AND DRIVE.+1

+2

ValeTudoGuy
07-12-2014, 09:25 AM
It's an emotive subject, but there's a massive difference between having a skin full and having a responsible small amount. The current law accounts for this and I am yet to see anyone provide data to show how many fatalities have been caused by blood alcohol levels below our current legal level.

I think people vilify alcohol because it's one of societies favourite Devils along with tobacco. It's much easier to blame a substance than the human behind the problem.

I also wonder how perfect the driving behaviour of people decrying any form of alcohol consumption is, perhaps you should take a look at my previously posted reasons not to drive and stick to them like glue.

And please let's not go down the route of condoning physical assaults on our fellow human beings for any reason.

I didn't deal with this incident myself but I am aware of a fatal car crash. Officer turns up to find two crashed cars a badly beaten driver laying on the pavement and an angry other driver all to willing to tel the officer "Yeah, he crashed into me so I beat him up."

Unfortunately there was also a dead woman in one of the cars. And unfortunately for the guy laying on the ground just having the living shit kicked out of him he was later going (Somehow) wake up in hospital to find out that he was in the process of having a stroke while driving which caused the crash that killed his own wife... And to top it off we will never know if she could have been saved because the only other person that had any chance of helping was too busy trying to kill the only other mobile person at the incident.

Ross.Co
07-12-2014, 10:58 AM
It's an emotive subject, but there's a massive difference between having a skin full and having a responsible small amount. The current law accounts for this and I am yet to see anyone provide data to show how many fatalities have been caused by blood alcohol levels below our current legal level.

I think people vilify alcohol because it's one of societies favourite Devils along with tobacco. It's much easier to blame a substance than the human behind the problem.

I also wonder how perfect the driving behaviour of people decrying any form of alcohol consumption is, perhaps you should take a look at my previously posted reasons not to drive and stick to them like glue.

And please let's not go down the route of condoning physical assaults on our fellow human beings for any reason.

I didn't deal with this incident myself but I am aware of a fatal car crash. Officer turns up to find two crashed cars a badly beaten driver laying on the pavement and an angry other driver all to willing to tel the officer "Yeah, he crashed into me so I beat him up."

Unfortunately there was also a dead woman in one of the cars. And unfortunately for the guy laying on the ground just having the living shit kicked out of him he was later going (Somehow) wake up in hospital to find out that he was in the process of having a stroke while driving which caused the crash that killed his own wife... And to top it off we will never know if she could have been saved because the only other person that had any chance of helping was too busy trying to kill the only other mobile person at the incident.
I must say great points and as ever a balanced approach.

On both of my occasions, they were both not even close to being under the limit.

When the car went over and we had to crawl out with the smell of burning with a mixture of fuel, picking glass out of you, with pure fear mixed with adrenaline and then the elation of walking away from the car to then have the driver of the other car walk oven and being highly threatening with said driver hitting my friend, well, I only hit him the once. Looking back, would I do it again, absolutely, am I grateful that I did not kill him, absolutely, as that would make me a person who has taken life.

My apologies for those that may think I am encouraging ABH or GBH, I am not. Do I view drinking and driving based on my own experiences, I am afraid I do.

I can still smell the burning smell if I close my eyes.

Statistics, without the raw data source should be viewed with caution. If you were to drive on 1 hours sleep would this mean you are more dangerous to someone that has had a tipple or pint, more than likely. But that could be another thread.

Ultimately, I believe that it you are driving, it may be an idea to not have an alcoholic beverage.

Cheers,

Ross.Co

ValeTudoGuy
07-12-2014, 11:14 AM
I'm wasn't trying to judge your situation Ross so thanks for seeing that. I just wanted to move away from the direction of discussing physical violence, purely because every situation is different and violence is rarely the required action.

I suppose the crux of what I'm trying to say and I'm not sure how well I'm putting it across is that there's much more at play when we discuss the safety of our roads and it's easy to start a crusade against one perceived catalyst.

My personal view is that if the powers that be aimed their efforts away from the already heavily targeted issues surrounding alcohol they may make gains that have been ignored or left lagging behind due to the vitriolic vilification of people whom I have yet to see proof are doing anything wrong.

Edit: There is also the fact that I myself do partake in the activity of drinking small amounts and driving, so naturally I will defend my actions.

PeeJay
07-12-2014, 11:52 AM
It makes me laugh when I hear people complaining about county police forces taking action against drivers with all the horror stories about unfairness in the red top tabloids. In London since they neutered the Traffic Division most police officers don't give a toss about traffic law and unless you're stupid enough to miss a camera or unlucky enough to have a collision you're going to get away with most traffic offences most of the time. We're just too busy running around like blue arsed flies trying to meet the governments targets on attending the 14,000 calls we get each day.

Ross.Co
07-12-2014, 12:48 PM
I'm wasn't trying to judge your situation Ross so thanks for seeing that. I just wanted to move away from the direction of discussing physical violence, purely because every situation is different and violence is rarely the required action.

I suppose the crux of what I'm trying to say and I'm not sure how well I'm putting it across is that there's much more at play when we discuss the safety of our roads and it's easy to start a crusade against one perceived catalyst.

My personal view is that if the powers that be aimed their efforts away from the already heavily targeted issues surrounding alcohol they may make gains that have been ignored or left lagging behind due to the vitriolic vilification of people whom I have yet to see proof are doing anything wrong.

Edit: There is also the fact that I myself do partake in the activity of drinking small amounts and driving, so naturally I will defend my actions.

Of course I would not view you as judging my situation...old Ross.Co may well have....;)

This is a discussion about an incredibly emotive subject and VTG, you are doing a damn fine job in highlighting the MASSIVE (excuse caps but it is huge) amount of other areas in a drivers daily life that can ultimately have an effect on either his or hers driving ability.

Alcohol, in quantities above the current permitted laws will have an effect on you. We all know this to be true and with a little Dutch courage can end up in a serious or fatal crash.

I must be honest and say that I am tired of alcohol being bashed with the big red stick. Very rarely do you hear about people on medication (any) having accidents, but am sure this statistic is huge.

VTG - This could of just been a thread where everyone lays into drink driving. Instead you have guided it to a discussion, and I must say it is hard at times to get out of the mist that you as a person are in, about driving in general.

Do I view you as a potential killer when you have a pint or tipple in a pub and get into your car? I really do not. Do I still believe that a situation where you bring alcohol and driving together should be avoided, yes I do. I stand by not consuming alcohol and driving.

Cheers,

Ross.Co

cigarmo
07-12-2014, 01:54 PM
I think the roads would be a lot safer if
All people over 70 could only drive on tuesdays.
All caravans could only be used on the fifth friday of any month.
All chavs with an IQ lower that 195 could Only drive if they have both parents with them.

PeeJay
07-12-2014, 01:59 PM
I think the roads would be a lot safer if
All people over 70 could only drive on tuesdays.
All caravans could only be used on the fifth friday of any month.
All chavs with an IQ lower that 195 could Only drive if they have both parents with them.

So the oldies have got to move from Sunday to Tuesday?

cigarmo
07-12-2014, 02:01 PM
So the oldies have got to move from Sunday to Tuesday?

they are out every day in St Annes.

TonyN
07-12-2014, 02:44 PM
Can't see what the problem is, not saying drinkers that enjoy a pint or 2 of beer can't carry on enjoying their drink
or a glass or 2 of wine ,but just don't get behing the wheel at the end of the session walk if not too far or get a taxi
your going to be safe and others on the road.

ValeTudoGuy
07-12-2014, 02:56 PM
What about the next morning Tony, when you need to go to work? Or if your going further than is feasible to pay for a Taxi and your transporting your family?

Your still making the assumption that people under the current regulations are actually a significant danger and potentially incriminating a large portion of society who are currently going about their lives not endangering anyone.

Edit: but I do agree with the statement of "Can't see what the problem is." It's just that I apply that to the current regulations as they stand.

butternutsquashpie
07-12-2014, 02:58 PM
Okay. So I obviously missed this gem of a 'random banter' thread...

But how did this simple joke go unoticed!?! Made me shoot coffee out of my rectum:

I wonder if everyone in Glasgow will get banned:p

PeeJay
07-12-2014, 03:01 PM
Okay. So I obviously missed this gem of a 'random banter' thread...

But how did this simple joke go unoticed!?! Made me shoot coffee out of my rectum:

Why do you put coffee up your rectum?

TonyN
07-12-2014, 03:03 PM
If i was going to work the next day guy i woulden't drink the night before,
as for a taxi everyone might see it different some would pay and be on the safe side ,
others would take a gamble by not getting a taxi saving themselves a few quid but run the risk of getting caught.

butternutsquashpie
07-12-2014, 03:04 PM
Why do you put coffee up your rectum?
i'm actually unsure..... of why i typed that (not why i put coffee up my rectum). been messing around with this new office autocorrect and i've seen it's been actually less efficient.

One thing it does help with is that every time you spell 'defiantly', it asks you if you want to use the word 'definitely'.
I find it humerous that our work doesn't think people will ever use the word 'defiantly'....

butternutsquashpie
07-12-2014, 03:54 PM
others would take a gamble by not getting a taxi saving themselves a few quid but run the risk of getting caught.

i don't think anyone who drives drunk does it with actual misintent. take the same manslaughterers in any daylight and there's no way they'd kill a person. (note. I'm not excusing them. AT ALL).

I think the majority of the conversations (pre drunk driving) just go:
"Hold-on... I shouldn't drive. I've been drinking.
Wait a minute... I shouldn't listen to myself! I'm drunk!!"

Wigan
07-12-2014, 04:03 PM
Why do you put coffee up your rectum?


Plenty of reasons apparently.....

http://www.mindbodygreen.com/0-7065/10-reasons-why-you-should-try-a-coffee-enema.html

PeeJay
07-12-2014, 04:05 PM
Plenty of reasons apparently.....

http://www.mindbodygreen.com/0-7065/10-reasons-why-you-should-try-a-coffee-enema.html

And I was accused of having too much time on my hands! :biggrin1:

ValeTudoGuy
07-12-2014, 05:19 PM
If i was going to work the next day guy i woulden't drink the night before,
as for a taxi everyone might see it different some would pay and be on the safe side ,
others would take a gamble by not getting a taxi saving themselves a few quid but run the risk of getting caught.

So then it is infringing on my right to put alcohol in my body.

and again, at the moment I don't have to take a taxi and yet I am not risking anything and am within the law.
A law change will change my legality and yet my life experience suggests that I will be criminalised with no good reason.

Makaron
07-12-2014, 06:19 PM
I am not risking anything

That is just your opinion, research say something different.

ValeTudoGuy
07-12-2014, 06:35 PM
That is just your opinion, research say something different.

It's an opinion backed up by personal experience.
Do you care to show me the research that counters it?

Makaron
07-12-2014, 09:27 PM
It's an opinion backed up by personal experience.
Do you care to show me the research that counters it?
Sorry not the best one but always a start:
http://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/impaired_driving/bac.html

ValeTudoGuy
07-12-2014, 09:40 PM
Sorry not the best one but always a start:
http://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/impaired_driving/bac.html

I Will read through it, thanks for posting. I have memories from my constabulary days of reports indicating that of all auto accidents where alcohol was a factor, under 0.08 accounted for between 1.3-1.6% dependant On year which the government extrapolated to equate to such a minor amount of total car journeys conducted by drivers at this alcohol level that they concluded that in 2002 it was not worth changing the law.

oskihen
07-12-2014, 10:44 PM
In the end cars are bloody dangerous they're coffins on wheels. If you want to have a drink walk or get a cab. I live in a rural area and I see so many people drink driving on a daily basis when they could walk it in under ten minutes , it is a problem that hits all classes probably more in the arrogant I can do what I want middle classes . But you can set the law at any limit even zero but unfortunately you'll never stop people breaking the law. If you drive along any motorway you see drivers oblivious to the correct way to drive regarding stopping distances and courtesy to other road users , tailgating at ridiculous speeds and in atrocious weather to think some could be drunk as well is very scary .
I drive generally as far behind the car in front as poss drop back when the twat undertaking me has filled the gap and look after my safety at all costs . Our new cars in all their luxury shelter us too much from the fact that they are a lump of steel travelling at massive speeds.

PeeJay
07-12-2014, 10:49 PM
The irony is that if we'd only go out and kill ourselves with no subsequent cost to the government they'd just let us get on with it!

cigarmo
07-12-2014, 10:53 PM
The irony is that if we'd only go out and kill ourselves with no subsequent cost to the government they'd just let us get on with it!

the do gooders would kick up a fuss though.