What happened in the US immediately after the Cuban Embargo?

[celsis]

What I found was that, in an attempt to be legit, the mob had invested in certain of the cigar companies in a big way. I can't remember the specifics, but I would agree with you that a lot of the families involved in the production of cigars were, technically, working for companies that had taken over their holdings. If I remember correctly, some of the families still owned the Vegas, but the production companies owned the produce and paid the rollers etc.

[cbob]

Having studied pre Castro Cuba as part of my Masters, I was amazed to find the how much money was shovelled into the cigar companies by the Mafia. I now wish I'd kept my papers!

I wish you could cite those references!
My own readings have never shown that much investment in cigar production by The Mob. Investment in hotels, casinos, restaurants, The Tropicana and the Batista government for sure but AFAIK they stayed away from sugar, rum (great historical overview in the book "Bacardi And The Long Fight For Cuba" by Tom Gjelten) and tobacco.

One factor in the embargo that many have missed and should be investigated is the claim by a myriad of American businesses and investors that their "traditional" or "family" holdings were illegally confiscated by Castro and the boys after the revolution. When you look closely, especially at the cigar factories, you will find that a vast number of concessions and properties were granted to American investors when Cuba was occupied and controlled by the USA after the Spanish-American War. Properties that had been in the hands of Cubans of Spanish descent since the country was first settled were handed around like candy. The basis of many of the claims of non-Cuban cigar producers on the brand names of many of our favorite marques should be examined to find out who these "old family businesses" that had to be "abandoned" or were "nationalized" after the revolution were actually purchased or forclosed upon by other than the actual original owners.
I'm sure that there are many of our fellow cigar fans in the USA who believe that brands like Cohiba and Trinidad were "stolen" by Castro- and this gives US companies the right to produce their own cigars under these brands -even though these are brands originating after the revolution.

[habanaman]

When will end the embargo probably we will see one or two years to a time of low supply of Cuban cigars on the continent Europeo.Finish this early stage then we must understand if we all really loved these Cuban the Americans, or if it was only a myth that made them dream.

When you smoke for 60 years or Dominican cigars ,in general america latina cigars (not Cuba) and then the palate is educated to certain flavors and aromas that are quite different from those cubani.
So we are not afraid, because no one else is real certainty that they will abandon totally their old cigars for cuban.

And then you think really that the other producers if they are looking to get the Cubans without doing anything? Other question.But when you really will end this embargo? I think we smoke good havana for a long long time!

Angelo

[peanutpete]

commander bob and captain duff two great post keep up the good work

[captain duff]

Sorry if this is hijacking, but I've had an indirectly related question on my mind for a while...

Do you think that years to come, "Castro-era" cigars will be particularly coveted in the same way as pre-embargo ones are? I mean, once Fidel and his brother die the chances are that the regime will collapse and something (perhaps less socialist) will take its place. The embargo will probably also end, and these factors will in all likelihood affect the cigar industry.

Yes, I do. The same thing happened with the better made engineering products of places like the DDR after 1989. Plus of course you also get the radical chic and 'che effect' to factor in to the current regime (something the DDR always lacked of course).


I'm not sure how the regime will go once the Castro brothers are both dead (or even one of them). They have learned from Gorbachev's mistakes at rapid economic and political transformation that led to the collapse rather than reform of the soviet state. They are also clearly unwilling to follow the authoritarian and oppressive capitalist one party state model of China. But they are still left with a lot of economic problems. A planned economy can only work if both producers and consumers feel they have control of the plan. Linked to this, a small non-capitalist eceonomy cannot survive in a sea of capitalism via the world market without a lot of outside support. The soviet economic support is long gone, and the preferential oil deals with Chavaz in Venezuela while clearly useful are not a total solution.

So if they can't re-engage a new generation in the ideals of the revolution, and there are material shortages that affect distribution and the ability of the planned economy to function, then they will face serious difficulties, regardless of Castro being alive or not (although there is clearly a lot of respect for Fidel at least among the Cuban people).

And the problem is that the grass always looks greener outside. It may not matter that Cuba has one of the best health care systems in the world, or one of the highest levels of education. Or that compared to other islands in the carribean its social problems are small. But when consumer goods are wanted but not available, and when there are some exiles who have made a lot of money being successful capitalists in Miami (although many others haven't and survive on food stamps) then the ties to the revolution could seriously begin to unravel, particularly as the older generation who can still remember the time when the mafia ran the island alongside Batista begin to die of old age...

[celsis]

I always find this quite strange. To me, at the time of the embargo, US pols were saying, "I don't mind you giving money to the Mafia, but woe betide you if you buy anything from someone we disagree with politically!"

Having studied pre Castro Cuba as part of my Masters, I was amazed to find the how much money was shovelled into the cigar companies by the Mafia. I now wish I'd kept my papers!

[cbob]

On topic:
I saw examples of "Pre-embargo" Cuban cigars @ J-R Cigars in NYC a few years ago. They are still legal for sale but these were tiny cigarillos machine-made from short filler and although they were stored down in "the vault", I would strongly doubt that these would be typical examples of the Havanas of over 50 years ago.

Off topic:

The old cuban taste was much better and the construction was also superb according to old timmers.

I would question how many "old timmers" (sic) who were actually cigar smokers back in the '50s and '60s are actually with us and still smoking cigars. Many that we know about have passed on and in any case, folks like Groucho and George Burns preferred cheap, machine-made non-Cuban cigars.
I remember 1950 well and while I was WAY too young to smoke anything, I recall that folks who smoked cigars were all "older" men in their 50s or older. They're mostly dead now. Younger people, who might still be alive and smoking were smoking unfiltered cigarettes. That killed off a whole lot of nicotine addicts who never switched to cigars or pipes.

It was a bit different in the 1960s. Young "poseurs" like myself were taking up pipes and cigars in our 20s. I'll continue to claim that nobody from that era who still smokes cigars today can accurately remember the taste and construction of Cuban cigars, especially since most folks from that era and earlier who may have adopted the cigar habit probably smoked mostly non-Cuban products anyway.

By 1970 or so when I was occasionally able to afford to "treat" myself with a Brand-name Cuban puro as a change from the blends (manufacturers in Canada could still get Cuban tobacco as well as the real thing: no embargo here) people my age in the USA were still able to get Cuban cigars on trips abroad. I never heard anyone claim that the cigars were different from "pre-embargo" ones. Why should they be? Cuba was still shipping the same product everywhere in the world except the USA.

The first hints of the "Cuban cigars are not what they used to be" dialogue came about the time cigar Aficionado magazine started publishing and the "cigar boom" entered full swing. To anyone who has smoked some of their "cigars of the year", produced by their top advertisers -makers of non-Cuban cigars- this should not be surprising.

I would never wish to cast dispersions on any of you who were actually born in the early 1930s and started to seriously sample and savour fine Cuban cigars when you were in your 20s and still do so today.
There are some iconic cigar people around, Simon Chase comes to mind but I'm not sure he's old enough, who may indeed remember Cubans from the '50s being "better". Certainly James Suckling, who has the palate, is not old enough. Mavin Shanken is not old enough but while I'll admit that he has the wealth to afford "pre-embargo" cigars to sample, I won't admit that these cigars could taste anything like they did at their construction.
I'll go out on a limb and claim that at least 99.99% of the "cigar experts" publishing and blogging out there are not old enough.
I'm not old enough and only have tasting notes on cigars I've aged since 1997. Every Cuban cigar has become better, not worse, every year that passes. The few 1970 era Cuban cigars I have are: meh.

How about you, my fellow UKCFers? Anyone out there who was actually smoking a selection of Cuban and non-Cuban cigars back in 1955? Did you keep tasting notes? Can you accurately remember how that R y J Churchills burned and tasted? Be warned: this is a trick question I'm also going to want to know what chicken tasted like 55 years ago and milk and beer and exactly how much oil your first car used.
.

[G-man]

How can we say

Romour has it he bought 1000 petit upmanns. Bit of a mistake if you ask me - if it was going to be the last CCs you ever smoked, wouldn't you go for something better?

We were far to young or some not even born. The old cuban taste was much better and the construction was also superb according to old timmers.

[mykeuva]

Yep, it was still legal for retailers to continue selling stock. Trade was prohibited as of the signing, but goods before the signing were still legal.

There are still places in some cities (Vegas, NYC) that still have and sell pre embargo cuban cigars. These are very pricey, starting at around $80-$100 for a single, and going up from there.

[Lee Nub]

Most of the rollers, blenders etc fled to miami and created great Non cubans

[Don Andres]

Sorry if this is hijacking, but I've had an indirectly related question on my mind for a while...

Do you think that years to come, "Castro-era" cigars will be particularly coveted in the same way as pre-embargo ones are? I mean, once Fidel and his brother die the chances are that the regime will collapse and something (perhaps less socialist) will take its place. The embargo will probably also end, and these factors will in all likelihood affect the cigar industry.

This is a great question. I expect we will see three categories of Cuban cigars, Pre, Embargo, & Post going forward after the collapse of the Embargo.

To answer the 1st question, retailers were permitted to retain their stock of Cuban cigars after the Embargo began. I have spoken to retailers in NYC who claim to have had stock on their shelves well into '64.

Cheers
Drew P

[neilini]

It's fine to smoke and sell pre embargo stock to this day I believe. In fact I'm sure I remember a thread about one botl's trip to Vegas and he posted some pics of the mirage casinos humidor with pre embargo stock in it. Or I could of been dreaming

[bambini]

Sorry if this is hijacking, but I've had an indirectly related question on my mind for a while...

Do you think that years to come, "Castro-era" cigars will be particularly coveted in the same way as pre-embargo ones are? I mean, once Fidel and his brother die the chances are that the regime will collapse and something (perhaps less socialist) will take its place. The embargo will probably also end, and these factors will in all likelihood affect the cigar industry.

[tippexx]

Thanks Monkey & sorry Tippexx for hijacking the thread.

I only asked because I had some very old Sancho's & Upmanns from Christie's a few years back that were awful, but I understand that many of those lots were not well kept.

No Worries Moidoid because I think the ageing issue is relevant to the questions.

There will I've no doubt for example be well-kept boxes of pre-Embargo Cuban cigars in collections somewhere. These will possible be examples of what is called 'old taste'. The truth though I would think is that nobody is going to smoke one to find out and in doing diminish the value as a collection box.

[moidoid]

Thanks Monkey & sorry Tippexx for hijacking the thread.

I only asked because I had some very old Sancho's & Upmanns from Christie's a few years back that were awful, but I understand that many of those lots were not well kept.

It is however fair to say certainly a practice of diminishing returns after a while (isn't this true of most callings?).

But there's no need to bring my love-life into it....