Can a CC ever be too old?

[K444HEP]

A post on Facebook recently referred to a CC as "probably better a year ago" which got me thinking... Can a CC be too old? Over the hill? Past it? The general consensus is that most sticks are better with some age, but how much is too much? Whilst I realise that this will be largely subjective, the most mature cigar I have had the pleasure of trying was a 1990 RyJ Panatela. I know that some BOTL here have had sticks that are far older... How do they compare to younger cigars? Is there a best before or are they good as long as they are stored correctly? So many questions!

[TJCoro]

I wanna? take you higher!

A post on Facebook recently referred to a CC as "probably better a year ago" which got me thinking... Can a CC be too old? Over the hill? Past it? The general consensus is that most sticks are better with some age, but how much is too much? Whilst I realise that this will be largely subjective, the most mature cigar I have had the pleasure of trying was a 1990 RyJ Panatela. I know that some BOTL here have had sticks that are far older... How do they compare to younger cigars? Is there a best before or are they good as long as they are stored correctly? So many questions!

In his legendary book “An Illustrated Encyclopaedia of Post-Revolution Habana Cigars,” Min Ron Nee discusses the various stages in the life of a fine puro - beginning with the “sick period” and ending with the “Third Maturation” which is about 20 years. You can google the interwebs for the details, but he explains the vairous chemical changes that take place in a finely rolled bunch of cuban tobacco. These stages, or evolution, of puros might explain the changes in flavor over time or what some consider peaking.

So in summary, I guess it is possible for a Cuban cigar to “peak,” like a fine wine, during any one of the maturation stages, and then decline. But the question is, will a puro that has peaked continue to evolve and “peak”again during a subsequent maturation stage?



And as Ron Min Lee notes in his book, when Cuban cigars age, the just become different. Translation: so-called “peaking” is a personal preference and may change over time

Bag Boy

[K444HEP]

In his legendary book “An Illustrated Encyclopaedia of Post-Revolution Habana Cigars,” Min Ron Nee discusses the various stages in the life of a fine puro - beginning with the “sick period” and ending with the “Third Maturation” which is about 20 years. You can google the interwebs for the details, but he explains the vairous chemical changes that take place in a finely rolled bunch of cuban tobacco. These stages, or evolution, of puros might explain the changes in flavor over time or what some consider peaking.

So in summary, I guess it is possible for a Cuban cigar to “peak,” like a fine wine, during any one of the maturation stages, and then decline. But the question is, will a puro that has peaked continue to evolve and peak again during a subsequent maturation stage?




Bag Boy

That's a very good question... I wonder if anyone here has tried a cigar from the same box over and beyond the aforementioned maturation process?

[TJCoro]

From dust to dust!

That's a very good question... I wonder if anyone here has tried a cigar from the same over and beyond the aforementioned maturation process?

I have, thanks to don TJ’s finely stocked unit, and I have noticed that some do change in a way that is not to my preference; most do however. But of the few that I’ve smoked with 20 or more years on ‘em, all were fantastic.

So I have to agree with RML (see my edited post above), the changes in flavor is a personal preference. RML also does not believe Cuban cigars peak, they just change. So one man’s peak may be another man’s gold!


Bag Boy

[Emaresee]

t'other extreme is utterly fresh rolled are quite different again! and a pleasure to be experienced. But I would simply agree that they are 'different'.

[Simon Bolivar]

I have, thanks to don TJ?s finely stocked unit, and I have noticed that some do change in a way that is not to my preference; most do however. But of the few that I?ve smoked with 20 or more years on ?em, all were fantastic.

So I have to agree with RML (see my edited post above), the changes in flavor is a personal preference. RML also does not believe Cuban cigars peak, they just change. So one man?s peak may be another man?s gold!


Bag Boy

I have to agree with both your posts there BB. The wine & cigars are similar in many ways but where as a wine can be undrinkable & vintage like in old age, in my experience of smoking up to 100yo Havana's, cigars do not go 'bad' if well kept. But they certainly have their peaks & if you like them punchy & with a reasonable nicotine content, then vintage cigars probably aren't for you. But if you can appreciate more subtle flav's & a great deal of patience or deep pockets to buy cigars that others have aged, then it does open up another world to cigar smoking.
Main points to remember:
Like wines, not all cigars will improve much with age, say more than 3-5yrs.
The best cigars can & do need aging to reach their full potential, although you may still enjoy them younger.
The classic aging brands are Bolivar 5-10 fine 15-20 still going well, 20+ finally softening, but I had a cab of CX from the 70's 40yrs+ & they were still full bodied & strong in strength, Cohiba 5-10yrs, should still be good at 20yrs+ ERDM & LGC 3-5yrs but exquisite at 20yrs+, Monte's (5-10yrs, 15-20 will be too soft for many), Party's & RA 5-10, but 15-20 they are still going strong.

[Shaun]

Its worth baring in mind the Tobacco has changed a lot over the years. I am not old enough to have enough experience of the pre 2000 tobacco, but I gather it was much stronger and fresh cigars where very harsh and almost unsmokable. Vintage cigars just taste a bit bland to me, not all but most.

[Simon Bolivar]

Its worth baring in mind the Tobacco has changed a lot over the years. I am not old enough to have enough experience of the pre 2000 tobacco, but I gather it was much stronger and fresh cigars where very harsh and almost unsmokable. Vintage cigars just taste a bit bland to me, not all but most.

Yes Shaun, the tobacco was stronger & they aged better so there's no telling how exactly current productions will be in 20-40yrs time but I am guessing a lot milder. And I agree some vintage can be bland in comparission to a 5yo stick but they are usually fine construction & perfect draw (unless you are unlucky with the '98-'01 era stix). The 20-40yrs old ones are an acquired taste but to me they are fascinating because of their history & make great occasional Red letter Day smokes.

[Shaun]

Strangely, I find the old machine made and smaller vitolas are the best vintage smokes. You would expect it to be the opposite, but I have a few old ones in cello over the past few months and they have been exquisite.

[dvickery]

Pretty good answers so far ... the following is based on personal aging (I have never chased “vintage” cigars) .

with age ... cigars change (I have tried to never say improve) ... if these changes are to your liking then by all means age your cigars ... if you don’t like these changes then smoke em fresh .

first thing you will note ... cigars get stronger for the first 10 or 15 years .
second thing is ... complexity generally increases along with strength .

myself ... I am looking for balance above all else ... a point where strength and flavours are in sync ... for me this is the holy grail (doesn’t matter if they are from 2015 or 1985) .

cigar aging myth ... you can’t age a “dog rocket” for 20 years and get anything but an old “dog rocket” .
this is just untrue ... I have lots of “cheapies” that have become fabulous cigars at the 20 or 25 year mark .

another cigar aging/fresh myth debunked ... for me ... true complexity like true strength comes only with age (there just isn’t a 3 year old cigar with more than just a hint of complexity for me ) .

not an “aging” myth but I just gotta throw it in ... fatter cigars are more complex than skinny cigars ... just not true ... the most complex/flavourful cigars I am smoking right now are some ‘03 bolivar coronas junior .

finally ... to answer your question ... I don’t believe you can “overage” a cigar ... I believe (if stored properly) a 35 year old cigar will have changed in ways I like over a 34 year old cigar .

it is early in the morning in Alberta and I sometimes ramble this early
hope this helps even a bit
derrek

[TJCoro]

Old Stick, Look at me Life....

The general consensus is that most sticks are better with some age, but how much is too much? !

If I may address this part of your inquiry with a passage from ol? don TJ?s field notes. The don believed that the only time a fine puro had past its prime, in terms of aging, is when you?re six feet under. Truer words have never been spoken.

Personally, when it comes to aging, I likes to keep things simple. I take two from each box, mark ?em, and store ?em away for furture enjoyment. But as a rule of thumb, I won?t go near a puro under one year, due to a undeniable fear of the ?sick period.? After that, it?s ?Katie bar the door!?

Bag Boy

[Kickback]

I've heard lots of cigar smokers with infinitely mote knowledge than me state that 5 years is the aged sweet spot and after that it does get smoother but the flavours start to diminish.
Me I've never kept any longer than a few months after purchase due to no where to keep long term.

[SHAMZ84]

Looks like you need a scuba or a few large tupadors.

https://www.themysterywhisky.co.uk

[K444HEP]

Pretty good answers so far ... the following is based on personal aging (I have never chased “vintage” cigars) .

with age ... cigars change (I have tried to never say improve) ... if these changes are to your liking then by all means age your cigars ... if you don’t like these changes then smoke em fresh .

first thing you will note ... cigars get stronger for the first 10 or 15 years .
second thing is ... complexity generally increases along with strength .

myself ... I am looking for balance above all else ... a point where strength and flavours are in sync ... for me this is the holy grail (doesn’t matter if they are from 2015 or 1985) .

cigar aging myth ... you can’t age a “dog rocket” for 20 years and get anything but an old “dog rocket” .
this is just untrue ... I have lots of “cheapies” that have become fabulous cigars at the 20 or 25 year mark .

another cigar aging/fresh myth debunked ... for me ... true complexity like true strength comes only with age (there just isn’t a 3 year old cigar with more than just a hint of complexity for me ) .

not an “aging” myth but I just gotta throw it in ... fatter cigars are more complex than skinny cigars ... just not true ... the most complex/flavourful cigars I am smoking right now are some ‘03 bolivar coronas junior .

finally ... to answer your question ... I don’t believe you can “overage” a cigar ... I believe (if stored properly) a 35 year old cigar will have changed in ways I like over a 34 year old cigar .

it is early in the morning in Alberta and I sometimes ramble this early
hope this helps even a bit
derrek

Very good points and well made Derrek. Thanks for taking the time to post!

[K444HEP]

If I may address this part of your inquiry with a passage from ol’ don TJ’s field notes. The don believed that the only time a fine puro had past its prime, in terms of aging, is when you’re six feet under. Truer words have never been spoken.

Personally, when it comes to aging, I likes to keep things simple. I take two from each box, mark ‘em, and store ‘em away for furture enjoyment. But as a rule of thumb, I won’t go near a puro under one year, due to a undeniable fear of the “sick period.” After that, it’s “Katie bar the door!”

Bag Boy

That's a great motto to live by!