BREXIT is a reality in 9 days

[simwells]

BREXIT is a reality in 9 days

Just finished reading this thread and I am impressed. This is the most civil brexit discussion I have ever seen.

I agree with Simon, it is best to focus on the positives in life, otherwise it will just drive you crazy.

The discussion is often on the economy though and misses the human side of things. As an immigrant to this country, I felt at home here from day one. Brexit has changed that. I no longer feel at home, but a tolerated guest at best.

Every time I hear the phrase "the will of the people", I am reminded that a large part of the country doesn't see the millions of people that are part of society as equals. Not equal enough to have a say in their own future, but just equal enough to pay taxes. [emoji5]

I have spoken to many immigrants about it and I have yet to find one that doesn't feel similar about it. Brexit alienated millions in society and that will have consequences.

This is one of the main drivers for me to relocate to the continent this year.

So I guess one of the changes will be a less divers country than it used to be. Less open to the world and more inward looking. And with more conflict and radicalisation on all sides.

Having said all that, I don't hold a grudge against any of you (I know most here voted for brexit). Whether you voted for it because of immigration (as most did), or you thought that the UK wasn't sovereign, I understand that your vote wasn't aimed at me personally and I understand that you voted as best as you could tell what is right.

Now I think that you were completely wrong in voting for it, but I also know that there was no malice. [emoji5]

Let's hope for the best, though I will probably have to watch it from the side lines. I don't wish for the UK to suffer. I have friends here and a god son and I will be devastated for them, should the country hit hard times.

So fingers crossed.

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Hated to read this and I hate that this is such a common thread of thought amongst immigrants we once welcomed, please don?t forget that a close to equal half also voted against it. It was never a clear cut thing and an incredibly difficult decision for many.

Inevitably the vote will make the country less diverse which imho is one of the best things about the vote but that was what a huge number who voted for it were voting for so I guess they will get what they want.

But the day the U.K. is seen as no longer welcoming to other cultures is a very sad day and that day through nationalism suddenly being acceptable to talk about again has already come


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[Simon Bolivar]

@Simon Bolivar - do you not still have some chums in the navy that could ship your cigars back to UK in a submarine for you?

Ha, I left 30yrs ago Neil, the last mate of mine left 5yrs ago, he was a Lt Cdr Submariner but I doubt they have room for my collection on a sub (did you ever see Das Boot?).

[Simon Bolivar]

Just finished reading this thread and I am impressed. This is the most civil brexit discussion I have ever seen.

I agree with Simon, it is best to focus on the positives in life, otherwise it will just drive you crazy.

The discussion is often on the economy though and misses the human side of things. As an immigrant to this country, I felt at home here from day one. Brexit has changed that. I no longer feel at home, but a tolerated guest at best.

Every time I hear the phrase "the will of the people", I am reminded that a large part of the country doesn't see the millions of people that are part of society as equals. Not equal enough to have a say in their own future, but just equal enough to pay taxes. [emoji5]

I have spoken to many immigrants about it and I have yet to find one that doesn't feel similar about it. Brexit alienated millions in society and that will have consequences.

This is one of the main drivers for me to relocate to the continent this year.

So I guess one of the changes will be a less divers country than it used to be. Less open to the world and more inward looking. And with more conflict and radicalisation on all sides.

Having said all that, I don't hold a grudge against any of you (I know most here voted for brexit). Whether you voted for it because of immigration (as most did), or you thought that the UK wasn't sovereign, I understand that your vote wasn't aimed at me personally and I understand that you voted as best as you could tell what is right.

Now I think that you were completely wrong in voting for it, but I also know that there was no malice. [emoji5]

Let's hope for the best, though I will probably have to watch it from the side lines. I don't wish for the UK to suffer. I have friends here and a god son and I will be devastated for them, should the country hit hard times.

So fingers crossed.

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Hi Niela, I was sorry to read your assessment (apart from this is the most civil discussion on the subject - I'd agree with that). I am sure no one will be 'kicked out' that s actually in employment & not got a criminal conviction, just as I don't expect any Brit's to be kicked out of the EU. I do think immigrants on both sides of the Channel will have to face more paper work & hassles but I sincerely hope there isn't an increase in personal animosity. I guess this is most likely in areas of high unemployment but as we know Immigrants EU workers are mostly doing jobs Brit's no longer want to do, especially in agricultural & hospitality.

The one hing I do agree with, that was on the news today was the assessment that with less EU workers wanting to come over (whether they could or not) then Care workers will have to be paid more- to maintain safe staffing levels & this is surely long over due & possibly would have to have happened if EU workers hadn't come in to fill these low paid jobs. This happens within the EU too lets not forget. My wife's nursing home chain in Belgium (80+ homes & counting) bus East Europeans over & give them training, housing & the minimum wage, rather than pay Belgian's more of a living wage.

If you have really been made to feel unwelcome since the referendum, then I am really sorry & disappointed in my fellow countrymen & therefore do not blame you for leaving, especially if you have family & they feel insecure or unsafe. But I would say anti-immigrant feeling is rising in Europe too & the populist movements will only make that worse.

I think this situation will calm down in a couple of yrs, once deals are finally done & we are battling alone with our 'Island mentality' as De Gaulle said. I would like to think that we will accept all those immigrants from the EU & beyond, for sticking with us during what will be trying economic times. Of course I maybe wrong but as we both agree, the best route is the positive approach. I wish you success in your move & hope it brings you the peace & acceptance you deserve. Hope you stay a member here of course, we are only enriched by our Non-UK members.

[Hookmaker]

Just finished reading this thread and I am impressed. This is the most civil brexit discussion I have ever seen.

I agree with Simon, it is best to focus on the positives in life, otherwise it will just drive you crazy.

The discussion is often on the economy though and misses the human side of things. As an immigrant to this country, I felt at home here from day one. Brexit has changed that. I no longer feel at home, but a tolerated guest at best.

Every time I hear the phrase "the will of the people", I am reminded that a large part of the country doesn't see the millions of people that are part of society as equals. Not equal enough to have a say in their own future, but just equal enough to pay taxes. [emoji5]

I have spoken to many immigrants about it and I have yet to find one that doesn't feel similar about it. Brexit alienated millions in society and that will have consequences.

This is one of the main drivers for me to relocate to the continent this year.

So I guess one of the changes will be a less divers country than it used to be. Less open to the world and more inward looking. And with more conflict and radicalisation on all sides.

Having said all that, I don't hold a grudge against any of you (I know most here voted for brexit). Whether you voted for it because of immigration (as most did), or you thought that the UK wasn't sovereign, I understand that your vote wasn't aimed at me personally and I understand that you voted as best as you could tell what is right.

Now I think that you were completely wrong in voting for it, but I also know that there was no malice. [emoji5]

Let's hope for the best, though I will probably have to watch it from the side lines. I don't wish for the UK to suffer. I have friends here and a god son and I will be devastated for them, should the country hit hard times.

So fingers crossed.

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I am happy you say ?civilness? because that?s REALLY what I like about this forum as opposed to many other fora. Discussions are always sound and NEVER get overheated here. GREAT and kudus to all [emoji106][emoji106]


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[PeeJay]

I am happy you say “civilness” because that’s REALLY what I like about this forum as opposed to many other fora. Discussions are always sound and NEVER get overheated here. GREAT and kudus to all [emoji106][emoji106]


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I wish he'd said 'civility' but I'm just a pedant!

[Emaresee]

For any contributors to our lovely country, i am ashamed that there are those who seek to belittle and demonise you for the simple quirk of fate that says you were not born here... we were all born on the same big rock.

On a daily basis there are c600% more cases of serious domestic violence than illegal immigrants landin on the UK shores - we ought to give desperate people help and homes.... and yes we ought to help 'our own' too.

I have to be careful on this topic. I find the whole mechanism to be rotten to the core. The original referendum was badly organised, it was advisory without a set of actions that set out how any outcome was to be adequately actioned. The vote to leave will be a dark stain on the history of this country for far longer than our life times - it has diminished our moral standing in the eyes of the world... well in all except such 'stand up' guys as Trump.

We had a huge say in everything the EU did... and now we have none. The economic powerhouses in the world are and will be India China and the US for the foreseable future.. the next in that line is a combined EU. .... so we are soon to become 'other'.

The UK has been mugged by some very greedy people, mobilising some desperate and marginalised folk.

I do hope it takes a tun for the better for all of our sakes and we become a more cohesive, inclusive and society.... and that includes being more accepting of cigar consumption!

Hey ho. And there I'm done.

[ha_banos]

Tribal, greed, fear, stories, politics, religion, media, resources, control. There must be decent book...

There's a weird global thing going on...

Macro economics is in wierd place. Zero inflation. Wealth. Taxes. Cryptocurrency. Oil. Climate. My head spins [emoji21]

The UK has always been an odd entity in the world. There's a strange psyche here with regard to the EU.

Personally I'll make even more effort to ensure folk are welcome.

My parents came over in the sixties. Windrush coming?

Eesh.

[ha_banos]

I'm determined to herf in Euro land this year. Keep me posted.

[Niela]

Hi Niela, I was sorry to read your assessment (apart from this is the most civil discussion on the subject - I'd agree with that). I am sure no one will be 'kicked out' that s actually in employment & not got a criminal conviction, just as I don't expect any Brit's to be kicked out of the EU. I do think immigrants on both sides of the Channel will have to face more paper work & hassles but I sincerely hope there isn't an increase in personal animosity. I guess this is most likely in areas of high unemployment but as we know Immigrants EU workers are mostly doing jobs Brit's no longer want to do, especially in agricultural & hospitality.

The one hing I do agree with, that was on the news today was the assessment that with less EU workers wanting to come over (whether they could or not) then Care workers will have to be paid more- to maintain safe staffing levels & this is surely long over due & possibly would have to have happened if EU workers hadn't come in to fill these low paid jobs. This happens within the EU too lets not forget. My wife's nursing home chain in Belgium (80+ homes & counting) bus East Europeans over & give them training, housing & the minimum wage, rather than pay Belgian's more of a living wage.

If you have really been made to feel unwelcome since the referendum, then I am really sorry & disappointed in my fellow countrymen & therefore do not blame you for leaving, especially if you have family & they feel insecure or unsafe. But I would say anti-immigrant feeling is rising in Europe too & the populist movements will only make that worse.

I think this situation will calm down in a couple of yrs, once deals are finally done & we are battling alone with our 'Island mentality' as De Gaulle said. I would like to think that we will accept all those immigrants from the EU & beyond, for sticking with us during what will be trying economic times. Of course I maybe wrong but as we both agree, the best route is the positive approach. I wish you success in your move & hope it brings you the peace & acceptance you deserve. Hope you stay a member here of course, we are only enriched by our Non-UK members.

Thanks Simon. I didn't experience a lot of abuse or anything, apart from some public display of nastiness towards others. My friend who's Muslim can tell a different story.

Also, I live in London and xenophobia is usually strongest where there's the least foreigners. I started to worry though when Theresa May held a speech as part of the Cameron government, blaming housing, NHS and unemployment crisis directly on immigrants, even though her own government released a paper just weeks before, showing that we actually contribute more to the country than native brits do. Followed by her citizen of nowhere speech and Johnsons "immigrants will stop treating this country as if it's their own", I worry that some years down the line we will become the next Windrush generation.

I have also heard from others that it got harder to rent property, as the landlord has to confirm that you are here legally etc.

But as you said, all this is nothing unique to Britain and nativism and isolationism is on the rise everywhere. And I know that most people didn't vote this or that way to hurt anybody. That's why I don't have any hard feelings.

I will miss the UK though and I still think that we are all better off working together for the common good rather than against each other.

And I surely will stay on this forum, as its by far the best I've ever been part of.

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[Niela]

Hated to read this and I hate that this is such a common thread of thought amongst immigrants we once welcomed, please don?t forget that a close to equal half also voted against it. It was never a clear cut thing and an incredibly difficult decision for many.

Inevitably the vote will make the country less diverse which imho is one of the best things about the vote but that was what a huge number who voted for it were voting for so I guess they will get what they want.

But the day the U.K. is seen as no longer welcoming to other cultures is a very sad day and that day through nationalism suddenly being acceptable to talk about again has already come


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I have heard from a friend in Germany about many request of highly qualified people asking her about how their qualifications could transfer to German jobs. I would expect a brain drain to happen as well.

However, me and my partner both got settled status, to leave the door open to us to return, should we regret leaving.

I am usually a very rational person, but the past 3 years have been emotional turmoil. And I don't think emotional stress is a good guide to decision making.

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[Simon Bolivar]

Thanks Simon. I didn't experience a lot of abuse or anything, apart from some public display of nastiness towards others. My friend who's Muslim can tell a different story.

Also, I live in London and xenophobia is usually strongest where there's the least foreigners. I started to worry though when Theresa May held a speech as part of the Cameron government, blaming housing, NHS and unemployment crisis directly on immigrants, even though her own government released a paper just weeks before, showing that we actually contribute more to the country than native brits do. Followed by her citizen of nowhere speech and Johnsons "immigrants will stop treating this country as if it's their own", I worry that some years down the line we will become the next Windrush generation.

I have also heard from others that it got harder to rent property, as the landlord has to confirm that you are here legally etc.

But as you said, all this is nothing unique to Britain and nativism and isolationism is on the rise everywhere. And I know that most people didn't vote this or that way to hurt anybody. That's why I don't have any hard feelings.

I will miss the UK though and I still think that we are all better off working together for the common good rather than against each other.

And I surely will stay on this forum, as its by far the best I've ever been part of.

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London is the City of my birth & probably has the highest percentage of 1st & second generation immigrants in the country. And consequently most of London did vote to remain. To the best of my knowledge London has always been more cosmopolitan than outside the capital & I have spoken to many visitors & travellers over the years who say London is the most welcoming of capitals, I sincerely hope that doesn't change. I can imagine things aren't the same the further you travel from London. Can't say I am against check on those getting jobs or renting/buying accommodation, or voting. I know it's a hassle but this happens elsewhere too, in Belgium you are supposed to inform the local police station, within days of moving in (my wife wanted me to do it moving day!) & then we have a visit by the police to make sure we really were living there & our papers were in order & my wife is Belgian.

Glad to hear you're gonna stick around on here though, besides following your cigars, I am sure we'd be interested to hear how you get on in your new home.

[Hookmaker]

I wish he'd said 'civility' but I'm just a pedant!

thanks peejay, I love you too

[smokey joe]

A large part of the UK media (those that control it?s agenda) have been manipulating public opinion against being in the EU for decades. Opting out of the single currency was the beginning of a shift in popular opinion about central government by Europe in this country. I believe (naively perhaps) that xenophobia and resentment towards people from other locations is not the fundamental motivation for the inhabitants of this islands decision to vote for leaving the EU in the referendum.

[jerryr]

BREXIT is a reality in 9 days

Day 3 post apocalypse, the sun is still shining and the earth hasn?t opened up to expose the fires of hell to swallow us up.......

Life caries on as normal


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[Niela]

Day 3 post apocalypse, the sun is still shining and the earth hasn?t opened up to expose the fires of hell to swallow us up.......

Life caries on as normal


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Well, nothing has changed yet. The transition period has just started and no-one knows what the future relationship will look like, with all its perks and consequences.

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