Cuban brands and NC brands? Who owns them?

[larrysputnik]

Every Cuban cigar brand also has a non-Cuban counterpart of the same name. Punch, Cohiba, Ramon Allones, etc. Who owns the name?

I'm curious because if the US decided to open trade with Cuba again, I think there would be a legal eruption on an international scale over the names of these brands. Certainly some people would be bought out, but not everyone. Of course, maybe this is already sorted in other places. Are NC and Cuban brands of identical names both readily available in any country?

[kingcohiba]

there will be some problems there. i was talking to the guy at the shop the other day about what they will do when the embargo is lifted. he said that would be a big problem. i am not sure who owns who! i think its just a matter of time before the embargo is lifted though. they have been talking....been in the news. i betcha within a year or two its over. i can only hope........

[daverave999]

I recall Simon mentioning something about this at our first herf. I suspect he will bring the details if he notices the thread!

[larrysputnik]

Are Padron and Fuente exclusive to the US then?

[tupacboy]

The entire world can get cubans, only us here in the states can't get them easily.

I don't see how crazy it can get just cause the US jumps on board.

Maybe the initial rush, but after a few months... I don't think the demand would stay that high... unless everyone falls in love with them...

[Jimmeh]

The entire world can get cubans, only us here in the states can't get them easily.

I don't see how crazy it can get just cause the US jumps on board.

Maybe the initial rush, but after a few months... I don't think the demand would stay that high... unless everyone falls in love with them...

I dont think thats quite the point - its more that there will be two partagas brands available - CC and NC

[mykeuva]

The entire world can get cubans, only us here in the states can't get them easily.

I don't see how crazy it can get just cause the US jumps on board.

Maybe the initial rush, but after a few months... I don't think the demand would stay that high... unless everyone falls in love with them...

There would be 2 problems if the embargo was lifted.

1. Demand would skyrocket. Yes, the world can get cubans, but the market in the US is huge. More cigar smokers per capita, with money to spend on them. Either prices would skyrocket if supply is kept the same, or, what I think will happen, the Cubans will try to increase output to keep up with increased demand, and quality will suffer.

2. The problem of the copyrights/trademarks. The cuban brands don't have copyrights/trademarks in the US, in most cases they lost them to a foreign company that applied and won the copyright/trademark in the US. So what will happen, to a brand like Cohiba, for example, that is owned by cubatobaco from Cuba, as well as General Cigar in the US? General Cigar has the right to sell "Cohiba" cigars and cigar related merchandise in the US. Will the Cuban Cohiba have to change it's name for the US market? Will there be some kind of agreement? Who knows, but it'll be messy.

[Paulie]

Without going into the economic implications of this, and trust me that is a very big area to get into. As somebody else said, only the US has a trade embargo with Cuba and the rest of the world has access to Cuban cigars and also the NC's with the same name and do not have much of an issue with it.

There has been a few cases about this in the past few years, one example being in the US when a court ruled that General Cigar had to stop selling it's Cohiba cigars and granted trademark protection to the Cuban brand. That then changed a few years later so that General Cigar now have exclusive ownership of the trademark in the US and sell their cigars with details of non affiliation with the Cuban brand of the same name. It does not end there however, as Cubatabaco has the right to take this further in the US court system to be granted total protection.

Long before the embargo is lifted, all these matters will be dealt with in US courts to stop this exact problem from happening as it is in both countries interests to have the distinction between brands and copyrights/trademarks official.

the other concern is of course that demand could well outstrip supply so either prices will go up and or quality will go down to meet the demand. This is likely to happen for a few years until the natural balance occurs and things settle down.

I would imagine that "Pre Embargo Lifted" cigars with have a premium of sorts once the expected quality drops. Start storing up those popular cigars as they will probably be worth a lot more in the US market place in 10 years time.

[larrysputnik]

The US is also starting to raise taxes on cigars and smokeless tobacco by ridiculous amounts right now. Maybe Obama is expecting to lift the embargo and cover the cost of this inflated government spending through the sale of Cuban cigars? Just a thought.

[Simon-JG-hr]

Quite right Dave, this was something I discussed a while ago. I'll try and find the thread, as I found quite a bit of interesting 'overlap' between Cuban and non-Cuban interests...

[Simon-JG-hr]

Three company names represent huge interests in cigars world-wide. Imperial Tobacco, Altadis and Habanos.

If you want to be lazy, read my previous thread; if you want to feel like James Bond have a good search around those three companies.

[TJCoro]

Frankie Sez, RELAX!

Amigos and others, this topic was touched on earlier this year. See Comments Here!

I suspect that the yankees who truly want and enjoy fine habanos are already getting 'em, from what I've read and seen over the years. So while there may be an initial spike in interest/demand, I believe US demand will settle back to approximately where it is today.

Those who smoke a Cuban cigar for the first time (after the embargo) will likely be quite dissapointed after 46 years of pent up frustration and unrealistic expectations. Coupled with the high cost of Habanos, when compared to N/Cs, most yanks will most likely settle back into the N/C groove and the demand for fine Habano puros will recede.

But what the hell do I know??? After all, I'm BJ, BJCoro, a simple hombre from the unencumbered State of Mind, Mexico.