There are more rotten....

[Very Old Man]

There are more rotten cigars in the market today then I have experienced in my whole life.?
My mate down the pub last week.
I think he has a point.
Every week a new brand from a manufacturer rears it's head and the advertisement industry take over.
For far too long we have listened to the advertising and forgotten about what we actually smoke and if we truly enjoy it.
We listen to YouTube sponsored drivel...the pre light draw aroma, the first third....for goodness sake.
We read CA.
Supporting everything that they have been paid to support.
What a load of baloney.
Then you have to pair it with a glass of this or that.
To take the taste away no doubt.
Most of the hype comes from the US because they rely on new world cigar imports.
So they must be good......right?
Wrong.
Why should I be told it needs more time in my humidor?

This was never the case in days gone by.
Look at the pricing.
Inconsistent quality for the price of the same Cuban and then all at once it's gone.
End of line.
While the reliable Cuban backbone cigar keeps on plodding along.



Throw your hat into the ring.
Tell us what you think.
Convince me I'm wrong.





.

[PeeJay]

You have to kiss a lot of frogs before you find a prince. This applies to cigars as well

[Very Old Man]

The Frog forum is actually on the dating forum?

[ha_banos]

Meanwhile the regular production CC are dwindling down to precious few and the limitadas and regionals become commonplace! Darn these fly by night releases. Well at least the blenders don't have to work as hard to try to keep some sort of consistency.

Perhaps the secret is to find the long lived cigars. And perhaps we'll find some staples. And leave picking random cigars for those random, unexpected, surprise pleasures...

Oh how things have changed.

Still I seem to get lucky more often with CC than NC.

Do you have any regulars these days?

[simwells]

There are more bad cigars than ever yes there are also more good cigars than ever.

It seems very odd to hear of an NC needing more time in the humi, Cubans yes most of the time they need much more time NC no almost never

Cuba has a real issue with quality control and the complete lack of it, a premium priced product without premium production.

You may not like the NC flavour profiles but quality is never the issue, and if you want Cuban flavour stick with cuba. I do smoke mainly Cubans because there are only certain NCs I enjoy but they’re not bad cigars or worse just not to my taste. And NC can offer so much you can’t get from Cuba flavour wise


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[Simon Bolivar]

I stick to Cuban's. I am happy to believe there are some excellent NC's out there but I have only found a handful that I enjoyed. I rarely get draw issues with Cuban's because I smoke 10yo+ stock, that have been stored at 62-63%. I do come across the occasional one that needs a Perfect draw but rarely. Have a few that get tarry, which isn't pleasant but I assume that happens to NC's too?

If I was starting out I guess I'd be willing to try more NC's but life is short & tit's not as if there are a fraction of the price of CC's like they used to be. Although if CC's keep increasing in price that might become true again. Luckily I have sufficient stock to see me out. Just have to avoid the temptation to sell off some of my vintage boxes, if the prices keep increasing. Auction sales are really reaching crazy heights now, hard to resist. Stay Strong!

[Very Old Man]

The reason non CCs survive is because of the USA, and the virtual non existence of Cuban cigars in the US, and the huge population at its disposal.
Billions have been invested into an industry through mass advertising..
If the product is so good why are so many brands dropped and new ones pushed out through the door?
Where is the stability in that?
It's all down to the sales figures.
Launch a new brand, get it a 95 on CA and some fast talking person on YT?
And there is a spike in sales.......
Then the cycle starts again.
And they can say all they want in the speel.
The reason cigars are made in countries outside the USA is the same reason they use China for manufacturing.
It's cheap and there is more profit.

[vanbobble]

Even as a a new smoker I have experienced more than a couple quality control issues with Cubans

i haven’t smoked many non Cubans, at least none which are supposed to be any good. If I can find some reasonably priced boxes of non Cubans I am happy to give them a whirl

As a newish smoker I never got a chance to build up any stock in the cheaper days before you could only bring 50 back.. consequently most of my purchases are duty free ones

[simwells]

The reason non CCs survive is because of the USA, and the virtual non existence of Cuban cigars in the US, and the huge population at its disposal.
Billions have been invested into an industry through mass advertising..
If the product is so good why are so many brands dropped and new ones pushed out through the door?
Where is the stability in that?
It's all down to the sales figures.
Launch a new brand, get it a 95 on CA and some fast talking person on YT?
And there is a spike in sales.......
Then the cycle starts again.
And they can say all they want in the speel.
The reason cigars are made in countries outside the USA is the same reason they use China for manufacturing.
It's cheap and there is more profit.

It’s not apples and apples is it though? There is only one Cuban manufacturer through a series of semi brands but there’s no real separation.

Yes there’s a load of new brands trying to jump on a bandwagon they see as being highly profitable but it rarely works as you see, there are plenty of very well cemented long term NC makers now who consistently make great smokes.

Plus if I read magazines or wasted time reading reviews I would have smoked a lot more terrible cigars, public reviews and review sites are complete nonsense and just there to create a market I agree but that doesn’t mean you should write off a huge number of great smokes.

You’re comparing Cubans to the worst of the NC market


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[Very Old Man]

Invariably NC manufacturers tell us how they are using the best selected Cuban seeds.
Now what does that tell you?

[Tomm783]

I’m not sure that’s fair. A massive selection of NC’s have zero cuban seed and don’t advertise accordingly. It’s certainly not something that would sway my attention when looking at NC’s.

The NC market is massive and as PeeJay said, with that comes a more difficult journey to find what you like. Variety is the spice of life and even hardcore Cuban smokers like Simon Bolivar appreciate and respect NC’s for what they are - different.

It all comes down to preference and choice.

The same Cabernet grape grown in France will taste different to the same one in Chile due to climatic and soil differences.

Growing tobacco leaves in different pastures has the same effect.

Enjoy what you smoke, no matter what it is and enjoy the journey of discovery. Cigars, after all, are supposed to make you happy!


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[simwells]

Invariably NC manufacturers tell us how they are using the best selected Cuban seeds.
Now what does that tell you?

That it’s a marketing tactic as Cuban cigars are the famous name and always have been

You see similar tactics in every industry around the world where there’s one dominant force


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[Niela]

I'm not sure that Cuba is so much better than NCs when it comes to marketing BS. All those regional releases and ELs are exactly the same as a NC brining out a new line of cigars every year. And on top of that Cuba is releasing new cigars all the time as well. Cuba has the best marketing in the business. Don't be fooled by the communist cover, they're as hungry for money as any capitalist out there. The global price hikes show that CCs are as much about the enjoyment of tobacco as Rolex is for reading the time. All the while a doctor makes less a month in Cuba as a Cohiba costs.

If you create a pie chart of different flavours in a cigar, I'd say 80% of those flavours are not found in CCs. But the other 20% are also not found in NCs. Many people simply only drink french wine, or drink scotch from Islay or only smoke CCs. Because they found something they like and they like to repeat the experience. I've been preaching for years that there is more to be found outside Cuba though that is well worth looking for.

And I don't think it's a matter of finding the rare needle in a haystack, to find what's good and ignore the bad ones. IMO it's a matter of training your taste buds. If you only ever smoke CCs, your palette is not trained to experience and differentiate different flavours, hence you can't enjoy them. The more you smoke outside of Cuba, the more you start enjoying different flavours.

At least that's how it was for me. I too once thought that Cuba is the shit and nothing is like it. I only smoked NCs, because I didn't have the patience to wait years and years before those expensive CCs become smokable. But the more NCs I smoked, the more I saw that NCs are on average better quality for less money and also offer a much wider range of flavours. I still have some CCs in my stash, but I rarely reach for them anymore. I found more interesting smokes that give me a variety that always lets me experience something new.

But that's just me. If you don't feel a need to explore outside Cuba, then you'll be happy with only smoking CCs. And as long as your happy with what you're doing, all is well. As for YouTube and magazines, nobody forces us to read or watch them. I found some sources that I know hit my taste, so I go to them to learn about new cigars, knowing what to expect based on their review. Others don't work for me, so I ignore them. That worked well for me so far.

[Simon Bolivar]

I can agree with much you have said Niela, 20yrs ago a friend told me (he was a newbie, who used to smoke my Cuban's happily enough & then tried a Griffin's Maduro Toro, think I bought him a pack of 3 for his birthday), his tobacconist told him if he regular CC smokers rarely crossed over to to NC's but those who started on NC's rarely got what Cuban's were about especially the tight draw ect.

I for one find many NC's to have too easy draw for me. Now as many of you will now, this is now a regular problem with CC's too; perhaps due to lack of experienced rollers who can roll firm but avoid plugged stix, so they less experienced are encourage to roll looser to avoid plugs & maybe make the tobacco go further? Personally after 25yrs of smoking CC's I like a firm draw but of course one man's firm is another's too tight.

Flav wise, obviously I love the Cuban flav profile & the way the flav should develop during the smoke, can't say I have noted that in NC's but happy to defer to those who are more familiar with them.

Time is limited, as is money. The time to experiment is really when your starting out/younger. I have a large inventory, with a rotation that takes a couple of yrs to get through so fitting in new stix just means others are getting older & a little softer.

If I was starting out today, the one thing I wouldn't do is buy boxes but stick to buying 3 stix of something new (you need to try a few to know if it's really for you & not a single bad stick throw you off) half a dozen singles of a brand/ vitola that you already know are fav's. Buying boxes ties up an awful lot of cash & even if they turn out to save you money in the long run or a good investment if you sell them on, unless you smoke a high volume it's probably not the best way of tying up cash. Besides, if you have become a collector, your never really want to let them go!

As for marketing, Habanos came up with EL's & RE's, pure marketing ploy's. A few were gems for sure but mostly none better than aging your own stix, for less IMHO. Also note more fancy boxes & collectors Humi's/jars ect, paying x2-3 more than buying the cigars separately. There are still 'cheaper' CC's worth smoking, it's just finding the ones you want at this present time.

And remember, however desperate things get, friends don't let friends smoke Guantanamera!

[ha_banos]

Mitch recently made this comment to me too that my palette has been used to Havanas.