Boli Britanicas

[Professor Twain]

I want two boxes, one to smoke, one to age!

[smokeymo]

Filler is generally 2 years aged these days on all Havanas so just about all Havanas are good to go straight out of the box

Wrapper contributes more or less zero to the taste and binder not much more

The days of opening a box and smelling amonia ate long gone now ...thankfully

Best

Mitchell

[Lionhound]

No longer a forum member

[monkey66]

Filler is generally 2 years aged these days on all Havanas so just about all Havanas are good to go straight out of the box

Wrapper contributes more or less zero to the taste and binder not much more

The days of opening a box and smelling amonia ate long gone now ...thankfully

Best

Mitchell

Sorry Mitch, I cannot agree with this either. Whilst the ammonia levels have probably reduced overall I have smoked plenty of young cigars in the past two years that have a hefty hit of ammonia and need to rest some before coming smokable.

Whilst I generally avoid smoking anything with less than a couple of years age sometimes I want to try a new release to see if worth buying boxes at OR. The ammonia can often be very harsh when really young. Not all sticks but plenty in my experience.

[Kdot]

Filler is generally 2 years aged these days on all Havanas so just about all Havanas are good to go straight out of the box

Wrapper contributes more or less zero to the taste and binder not much more

The days of opening a box and smelling amonia ate long gone now ...thankfully

Best

Mitchell

Dont forget that a 2nd fermentation can occur after rolling. Ive experianced this many, many times.

[Deano]

Gotta agree with some of it and disagree with others.

I've found standard production cigars to be fine straight out of the box for the past few years in general - obviously the majority can do with further ageing. I really don't see that much of a problem anymore (well ever since I started smoking, which isn't that long tbh).

However, I have found some of the LEs (even though the tobacco is even more aged), to often need resting for a considerable time due to being sick/full of ammonia.

[SmokeyDave]

Gotta agree with some of it and disagree with others.

I've found standard production cigars to be fine straight out of the box for the past few years in general - obviously the majority can do with further ageing. I really don't see that much of a problem anymore (well ever since I started smoking, which isn't that long tbh).

However, I have found some of the LEs (even though the tobacco is even more aged), to often need resting for a considerable time due to being sick/full of ammonia.

Sounds about spot on Deano, the Boli Petit Belicosos comes to mind.

I think we were very lucky with '08 releases, that year of production seems to be good across the board, maybe giving people false hopes that all is well. For me the latest crop of smokes coming out of Cuba seem to have taken a drop in flavour. Quality of construction seems to be the same, just the flavour that I feel has dipped.

Then again, ageing must be the best thing right? If a smoke is stonking straight out the box surely it will be top shelf with a few years on her?

[Deano]

I've found the new RA LEs full of it too, I suspect they'll be a great smoke in a year. Albeit, others have said that their own have been great.

[gmacz]

I am finding that the recent 2011 cigars are better in every aspect. I have empty boxes from 07,08 and 09 and find that the new crop of 2011 are a lot better. The cubans seem to be producing a better product and the fact that there is better competition from non cubans might be the key. Boli rcs had the ammonia aroma but it is pretty clear now. With modern farming methods, it should get better every year, bad weather would cause blips in the crops though. Quality control will get better or should get better year on year due to technology. This is with taking ageing out of the mix.

[monkey66]

I am finding that the recent 2011 cigars are better in every aspect. I have empty boxes from 07,08 and 09 and find that the new crop of 2011 are a lot better. The cubans seem to be producing a better product and the fact that there is better competition from non cubans might be the key. Boli rcs had the ammonia aroma but it is pretty clear now. With modern farming methods, it should get better every year, bad weather would cause blips in the crops though. Quality control will get better or should get better year on year due to technology. This is with taking ageing out of the mix.

I think you need to visit Cuba. Your observations are quite accurate for NC's were the quality and consistency is excellent and hugely benefited from ongoing technological improvements.

A little communist island under US trade embargo is (form many reasons) not the same environment.

[Lionhound]

No longer a forum member

[monkey66]

Modern farming methods, even if availablr in Cuba would make virtually no difference to the problem of secondary fermentation.
We use modern farming methods in this country and in agriculture, particularly grassland farming, secondary fermentation is a major problem in animal feed. This can to some extent be controlled by using additives but that would be unwanted and probably impractical with tobacco.

Very interesting.

[smokeymo]

It may be bold but its based on my experience over many years and handling/selling literally millions of Pounds worth of Havanas annually.

The implication is not that we will replace a cigar that has gone into a sick period as we recognize that this does happen occasionally but most customers actually misdiagnose sickness with differences in blend from date code to date code and factory code to factory code.

The problem I think is that many cigar smokers smoke a great box of XYZ cigars and a day/year/years later buy another box and think there is 'something wrong with them as they dont taste the same' but they have not factored in the differences of vintage which can be fairly significant. Test it out by smoking a BBF or Monte 2 with an 05 code and compare with an 09 and 10 and you will see exactly what I mean. Many inexperienced smokers will cry 'its sick or its flat or whatever' but it simply is not - its just 'different' due to the different vintage as well as subtle blend changes that occur

As an example, a client just returned a cabinet of Siglo I ( April 11 code - EMS) bitterly complaining that it didn't taste right to him and was different to the last cabinet he smoked. We did QC on the cigars, including taking apart one to check blend and construction and smoking 3 of the cigars ( all with the most perfect maduro wrapper) and they were an absulute perfect example of brand,vitola and vintage. No big deal- cabinet replaced with different code to see what client thinks of them.Difficulty in these scenarios is that so many factors come into play when smoking a Havana that can affect ones personal smoking experience- weather/mood/what has been smoked immediately before/what is being drunk whilst smoking the cigar/whether the smokers palate is just 'off' and so on.

We offer complimentary replacements for cigars that are damages or constructed badly which can of course happen but thankfully its fairly rare over the last few years.

Sorry to try and reply to a few posts in one but I am genuinely surprised that a few of you have said you are still experiencing amonia problems with new boxes.I certainly have no reason not to believe precisely what you are saying but I honestly extremely rarely experience this with our vast stocks that go through QC on arrival many of which I supervise personally so I am at a loss as to why your experience with a few boxes would be vastly worse than my experience with literally 1000's of boxes. I don't know if there is any other factor coming in to play but can't think of one off the top of my head.

I have been in the trade long enough to remember the years when we literally could not sell cigars when they arrived into stock as they were too fresh and we had to lay them down and check them monthly to see when they were ready for release but that was back in the late 90's and certainly since 2003 the situation really rarely happens any more.

Best

Mitchell

[Zigatoh]

Thanks for the thorough response there Mitch!

Personally I haven't bought a box in years that wasn't good to go from the off (apart from a tenner of PSD5 last year - but that might just be because it's a crap cigar - only time will tell), but that's not to say a year or two won't make them better - but that's a different matter...

[Bigboned]

Awesome and very succinct reply Mitch, only goes to keep the faith of your legendary service alive