Age - Good, bad or indifferent?

[TJCoro]

We Are Family, No?

Sorry but that is the biggest load of rubbish I have read in my life...Wrapper providing majority of flavour.

YIKES! Wake up on the wrong side of the bed, did we?

Now, I've read lots and lots of stuff by so-called Aficionados on both sides of the wrapper debate - some say it's the majority of the flavor, some say not - but whatever side you take, I believe it's a debate worthy of an honest and honorable....ummm, errr,....debate!



Rubbish? Maybe....maybe not.

Bag Boy

Haha! I think this post is a load of shi....rubbish!


Hey BB! I ALWAYS remove the wrapper before I light up.

[Habana-Habanos]

Sorry but that is the biggest load of rubbish I have read in my life. Thicker cigars age better.
Wrapper providing majority of flavour.
Just my opinion but these and nearly every other statement is flawed don't believe what you read everywhere and base things on your own experience.

Don't apologise, the quote marks are because it wasn't my writing; from cigars international

[Habana-Habanos]

Agreed, it's even impressive! There is a truth-cons in each sentence!

I'd be curious to know where this text comes from…

Pulled it off cigars international, the gauge quote did get me thinking. But I must say thicker gauges tend to have more complexity because you can fit more leaves in the filler.. Will they age better? Well technically they have more potential I suppose?

[TJCoro]

Cite the source.

Don't apologise, the quote marks are because it wasn't my writing; from cigars international

Good on you, matey.

Although, it's not a bad idea to cite the source when using quoted material.

I always attribute my borrowed quotes to the source, such as when I borrow from the ol' master, don TJ (may he rest in a peace ).



BJ, BJ Coro

[Habana-Habanos]

I know! Almost dropped myself in the ol' ditch there.

[dvickery]

thicker cigars develop more complexity !!! a myth started by cigar aficionado magazine(i first read this about '98 it may be older tho) and perpetuated to this day by "newer" cigar smokers .

perhaps the most complex cigars i have in my stash are some bolivar coronas juniors ... maybe the most complex cigars i have ever had were some '94 upmann super coronas .

derrek

[smokey joe]

those culebras seem pretty complex to me, i mean how'd you light them, which one do you puff on, what do you do with the ribbon etc etc???

[Simon Bolivar]

OK, haven't had time lately to post, barely keeping up with the interesting threads but I guess here"s a thread I should reply too as I have some experience of aging my own smokes & smoking some very aged smokes. Most of my cabs that I am smoking from are now 6-9yrs old, newercabs are around 1-4yrs old, which will ready to smoke when the old ones are finally finished.

Lots of points made along the way but here's a few notes from th. Wonones I remember/ thought important:
1/ When buying I always look for a few yrs on the cab if possible to start with, this means my waiting time is. Large selection.educed. Certianeducated suppliers list dates & codes, thos that don't are mostly selling fresh stock & probably not worth updating their pages every time they change from '12-'13 ect. Some clues are knowing when vitola were discontined, even though the date isn't mentioned, you'll know they'll be at least that old. Other ask the vendor by email & he should tell you before you buy a box.
2/ The biggest change in a cigar will be in the first 12 months, these wouldn't have beenreleased to the public in the past when vendors in the UK at least aged their own stock so the punter was able to buy & smoke straight away. I doubt many smokers 100yrs ago would have kept more than 25-50 cigars in the house, no need when you could have a decnet box sent to you whenever required. Also remember, in general, smokes used to chose a brand & maybe even just one or two vitolas within that brand & just smoked these all the time (as cig smokes do today). Again less reason to stock the large selections we do today. After the first yr, 1-3yrs is going to be the next biggest change. 3-5 yrs most Havana's will be at their best, remember not call French wines improve much with age, but some improve a great deal. 10-15 yes thing are really slowing down but some classics will improve up to 20yrs, ERDM & LGC are 2 good example of brands (& slim vitolas) that can do this. Monte's, Party's, RA's, Boli's & H.Upmann would be the brands to seek in the vintage sales IMHO.
3/ Always quote your sources (as mentioned by TJ)
4/ Would I pay rmore for a 2-3yr old box? No, just expect to pay the same but would chose them.
5/ would I pay more for 5-8yr old box, yes but not alot.
6/ Would I pay more for 10-20yr old boxes, on certian boxes a fair bit more. Someone else has taken the time & trouble to age them.
7/ What would I pay for 30-40yr old cigars? Too much! But so far they have all been worth it.
8/ Tips for the newbies? Buying Havanas these days yor getting a better product, that needs less aging than in previous decades so don't get too hung up about it. Always take the chance to swap sticks at herfs & with friends you make on here. You'll be suprised how generous the older member can be but if you want that to continue, don't send them a load of NC's, expecting aged Havans in return. Send good conditioned Havanas & they won't expect them to be aged, they'll just put them in rotation.

[ValeTudoGuy]

Pulled it off cigars international, the gauge quote did get me thinking. But I must say thicker gauges tend to have more complexity because you can fit more leaves in the filler.. Will they age better? Well technically they have more potential I suppose?

The most complex cigars I have had have been the thinest, Bolivar Demi Tasse and Punch Margaritas.... Now either I have been smoking worse thick Cigars which I doubt, or at least for me the idea that thick Cigars are more complex just doesn't sit.

Perhaps it's a subject that's a little to complex to sum up so easily?

[tippexx]

The idea that wide RG smokes are more complex than narrow RG is just CA nonsense. They are however easier to smoke which suites whooses who can't be arsed, inhale greedily or lack the patience or practice to properly deal with a Lancero or Laguito No 3.

Large RG don't age any better than narrow RG, but in my experience the narrower the RG the longer it takes, although on the plus side the narrower gauge seem to have a greater longevity.

I would agree with 99% of what Simon has told you, with the proviso that paying any sort of premium is a last resort and only really applicable to delisted vitola. Reasonably aged production smokes can be found without having to pay extra and in some countries it would be against their consumer Laws.

The secret of course is not to suddenly decide you want something six years after Habanos have killed it off. In some cases you might be lucky, a lot of dead smokes were never popular, they're just as crap now and are reasonably easy to find. The not crap ones .... the Boli DT that VTG has mentioned, Partagas SdC1, Punch Ninfas et al these you'll find now only in Auctions or with specialist vintage tobacconist. Expect to pay.

[Smallclub]

at least for me the idea that thick Cigars are more complex just doesn't sit.

Because it's just wrong. Thick cigars contain a high % of volado leaves (I simplify deliberately) that contain very few elements likely to change over time.

Take 2 cigars in the same line: Montecristo Edmundo (52rg) and Montecristo Especiale (38rg). You don't need to be an expert, with a bit of experience it's easy to detect/guess which one is the best candidate for ageing…

[Moon Dancer]

I worked with a guy for 20+ years, who smoked nothing but Hamlet. He described them as " a pleasurable sensation"

I often think there is no subsitute for trying a mixed assortment of age, wrapper, vitola & origin.Try as many as you can, your own personal preference will become quickly everdent.

By all means listen to friends and colleagues, but, IMHO avoid the so called covertly paid aficionados I've yet to hear one say, what a load of ......

My preference is still for a Bolivar, having smoked them through thick & thin, etc, for about 57 years. But that's not to say I don't smoke others, especially from friends



Cigars mean all things to all men.

[TJCoro]

Only the Old Live Long!

My preference is still for a Bolivar, having smoked them through thick & thin, etc, for about 57 years.

My God Man!?!? You must have started smoking when you were three years old!


BJ, BJ Coro

[Moon Dancer]

Save for the odd dragg of my fathers Boli's, I can definitely confirm Boxing Day 1957, as the (if it makes him sick,,,,etc,) From then on in, I could sit with the men, aged 14 yrs. But no alchol,

[Moon Dancer]

Somewhere along the line I omitted to say that, IMHO, that cigars up until the late seventies, with only natural fertilizer and filtered kidney water, applied, moreover, houses never realeased their leaf under 3 years old, was Cuba's hey day!!!
Now, with petro chemical fertilizers & early leaf releases the true flavour has deminished.. That said, I hasten to add, the introduction of the draw machine has certainly improved the expectation, but not much else