Cohiba Box Codes

[butternutsquashpie]

Personal preferences aside - on point to the actual discussion now. I think Arf led a good segway:

And why confine an Urban Myth soley to Cohiba, because what it implies is that only El Laguito do a satisfactory rolling job and therefore anything rolled anywhere else won't be as good. It's neither demonstrable or true,

but if people choose to believe it and adhere to it as a Cohiba purchase 'willy-wave' it does have a certain 'one-up' effect.

1)
It's a very "A leads to B which leads to C" kinda thing. I don't think it's an Urban Myth. Rather, it's quite grounded in logic.
As our local Irishman (who spends more time in Cuba than anyone else) here will profess, the El Laguito factory is treated less like a British 1800s industrial work camp but more like a community. Birthdays are celebrated, people are entertained, etc. They're also the inception of most cigar vitolas when it comes to Cohiba (most recently, the BHK is a prime example). Therefore, I can propose this logical syntax:
A(Cohiba Factory creates a friendly and likable environment) + B (Cohiba Factory overseas many premium vitola blending with more seasoned people running the shots) = C (better products)

Now, the empirical evidence comes from something I've mentioned time after time. Behikes are rolled in Partagas and Cohiba factories (around 1:3) and all boxes in Cohiba factories. That's a widely known fact. Partagas Factory Behikes are on average 20% heavier and have less shapened heads.
How do you have a line of communication per factory rolling that cigar when Cohiba did the inception? How can you expect Partagas to keep up with it? Simple: you can't.
20% more tobacco means it's not adhering to the original blend and has a bigger probability of being plugged/ burning shittily. Bad cap means inexperienced roller.

I have made my claim backed by supporting evidence. Your move, [MENTION=609]tippexx[/MENTION]



2)
I have never seen people willy-wave their box codes. "You got a GIT box code!? Oh yeah!? Well I got an MUO for the same price!"
That just doesn't work... They're both in the same availability and price range. I don't think people say that to "willy-wave" as you deem it. Rather, people tell others they got an MUO because they're having better experiences with those than the GIT in hopes to help them find a better smoking box.
23 good smoking cigars out of 25 rather than 17 good smoking cigars out of 25 per box. That's what we aim for in all hopes.

Don't confuse one-up-manship with general aid and help or reports on what is smoking well.

[Krist]

Butternutsquashpie, this is the second of your threads I have read regarding box codes, the previous having a number of codes listed and yourself explaining your thoughts on preferential boxes. If memory serves, someone mentioned that factories can change their codes and that prior to a certain date there was no codes? Again please correct me if I'm wrong.

Is there a defined list (I have looked but not found) of factories in Cuba with their historical codes? You also mentioned preferred codes, is it generally the original factory that produces the best cigars?

I hope I haven't missed something and sound daft.


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[butternutsquashpie]

Butternutsquashpie, this is the second of your threads I have read regarding box codes, the previous having a number of codes listed and yourself explaining your thoughts on preferential boxes. If memory serves, someone mentioned that factories can change their codes and that prior to a certain date there was no codes? Again please correct me if I'm wrong.

Is there a defined list (I have looked but not found) of factories in Cuba with their historical codes? You also mentioned preferred codes, is it generally the original factory that produces the best cigars?

I hope I haven't missed something and sound daft.

No worries. I'm the daft one here... I haven't been keeping track, but this is definitely not the second time I've ranted on about factory codes.

But anyways, the changing of box codes is not a set thing. The general rule is that factory codes change every year (sometimes two years). for example, my fabled TEB box codes have stretched from 2008 and 2007 with some going down to 2006 (the Bolivar Libertadores RE Francia is evidence of this as well as every regional from 07/08). Then, in 2009, they changed to LRE and in 2010, they changed to POL. In 2011, and so on.

Prior to 1985, there were no codes. 1985 - 1999 followed the NIVELACUSO method where every letter represented a number from 1-0. A more basic and fun versrion of the box codes. Factories codes were 2-3 letters at that time and people knew which codes were which factories.
In 2000, they changed to the factory branding that we know today.

is it generally the original factory that produces the best cigars?
This question is limited in controversy. I say that it's generally the original batch that produces the best cigars and our own monkey mod [MENTION=469]monkey66[/MENTION] might agree or chime in on this with his expertise. I've never had a bad OR cigar (much like I've never had a bad TEB cigar). But many cigars I wouldn't touch again with a ten foot pole if not for the Original Release. Case in point is the La Gloria Cubana Inmensos.
Now, when it comes to FACTORIES... I'm unsure. I would say it's a case by case basis on this one. The Behike is a great example of how the original factory can't be copied... But the new H. Upmann Connoisseur A is an example on how it doesn't matter. The new XXX ENE14 box codes were just as great as the original UPE JUL 13 box codes. (i think it was LUB for 14... but I think that's the same factory.)

[tippexx]

Jeremy, has it not occurred to you that if any of what you were saying was ‘consistently’ true, then no Wholesaler or Retailer would be prepared to knowingly accept what they believed to be a sub-standard product, and that all would be perfectly within their right to insist on being supplied ONLY with the premium product they believed they were buying. Ask yourself the question, in Hunter & Frankau’s shoes, what would you do?

OK, Habanos QC is not always the greatest, but suggesting there can be a 20% weight/quality difference between factories is pushing the theory of limitations into a Netherealm. They do weight check, they do taste check to verify the blends and they do check for shape and wrapper. Rogues do get through, but they’re just as likely to get through at El Laguito as anywhere else.

The idea that there is a significant difference between factories has been bandied about since God was a boy. But think about it logically, making Cuban cigars is just a series of hand-skills and if one set of workers were really proving themselves that much superior to others, then rectifying the situation wouldn’t tax the imagination of a twelve year old. Simply show and help them do it better.

The blends are the blends and the tobaccos for the blends come from designated fields. The supply is controlled, and in theory a Monte 1 should be a Monte 1 wherever it came from. If the theory didn’t work then they would be something else and the Habanos Marketing Department would be busy dreaming up a name for it. Likewise, if it was recognised that one version of Siglo 3 was always better or significantly different to another, then my marketing instinct would be to immediately add GT or PLUS to the designation. The other thing they could easily do, is leave the ABC, DEF's off altogether, they don’t, which suggests that Habanos are reasonably happy and there is very little difference between factories.

That El Laguito is ‘happy-clappy’ is hardly surprising, oppressed misery is probably not the sort of atmosphere Cuba wants to present to tourists, and El Laguito is the closest thing they have to a theme park. Forgetting politics, Cubans I think are by nature pretty laid-back and generally happy, and the workers in El Laguito are in many ways, willing or not, the Cuban equivalent to Disneyland Greeters. And the other factories, are they depressed, unhappy places run on Todt Organisation lines, or just ordinary factories where happiness isn’t a work activity, but just something they do for themselves?

The power of suggestion is a wonderful thing. A Forum Member moan-off about a few XYZ boxes becomes a taken that XYZ should be avoided and dismisses the thousands of XYZ boxes that were perfectly OK. Likewise a praise on ABC boxes will suggest that all ABC boxes are amazing while blithely omitting all those that aren’t. Say these things often enough to the impressionable, to the fearful, to the uncertain or to those who only hear what they want to hear, and they acquire the status of ‘expert’ truth.

Butters, you mentioned Ryan. Ryan I have great respect for because he gets himself out-and-about to learn as much as he can about the personalities and mechanics of cigar making.

Other Forum 'experts', those who frequent or hang about Havana’s beaches and bars — which certain Forums have a plenty supply of and from where most of the box code rumours eminate — I’ve admiration for, but only for their ability to afford it. Smoking cigars or going to Cuba doesn’t always lend validity anyone’s opinion about cigars, anymore than would my visiting the National Gallery every day for a month turn me into an expert on Pre-Raphaelite painting.

And sorry matey, the 'willy-wave' 'look I'm one up' braggadocio is endemic you know where, but 'sledging' is part of the culture anyway, so no real harm done.

[PeeJay]

That was a great read [MENTION=609]tippexx[/MENTION], thanks for making the effort.

[monkey66]

Wow ...far to much aggression on this thread for my liking. Please try to just make ones own point rather than attacking others.


From my point of view I think (for the enthusiast/geek) there is some value in caring about factory's/marcas ...but only some. The value may be imaginary / perceived and there is good and bad from every factory.

I personally believe the Head of El Laguito/rollers/blenders are going to have more experience/dedication/pride/correct raw material in getting the blend right in my Cohiba Lanceros than a random provincial factory.

Of course I have smoked many great cigars from random or unknown factories and many poor ones from the so-called 'correct' factories.

NB - I know some very serious cigar people who swear by factory codes. They will only buy when it is their preferred factories / dates. FWIW not all the cigars they have sent me have been great but a good few were. I did do a blind taste between a 2013 El Laguito Cohiba Esplindido and one from an undeclared factory. In that instance the EL L example was noticeably better.

A good cigar is a good cigar. Chasing factory codes is only for people far too deep in ...like me

[tippexx]

A good cigar is a good cigar. Chasing factory codes is only for people far too deep in ...like me

And far be it from me to stop you doing it.

But, when you did a 'blind' test on Cohiba Esplendido Monk, how did you know which was which, or that you hadn't actually mixed them up. Or worse, that any significant difference was all in your bonce, any only there because you wanted it be?

OK, that's Mod baiting and a bit naughty, but truth is we both know you can get a significant difference between two brothers side by side in the same box. Sometimes I wish we couldn't, and box code aside, that is just one of the many joys and woes of Cuban cigars.

[monkey66]

And far be it from me to stop you doing it.

[emoji2] But, when you did a 'blind' test on Cohiba Esplendido Monk, how did you know which was which, or that you hadn't actually mixed them up. Or worse, that any significant difference was all in your bonce, any only there because you wanted it be?

OK, that's Mod baiting and a bit naughty, but truth is we both know you can get a significant difference between two brothers side by side in the same box. Sometimes I wish we couldn't, and box code aside, that is just one of the many joys and woes of Cuban cigars.

The test was blind to me, just marked A/B ...but not much of a test, just a single example.

[Bob123]

Tipexx: with your opinion on Habanos and their procesess you are forgeting one important thing, Cuba is Communist country and lots of things doesnt work or work differently then in the UK.
There is for sure shoratge of tobacco, quality issues, etc and I can imagine that prominent factories get better stuff.
also between factories are long distance and forget about online control system, and technology, so there is big space for mistake. And future increase of production will make it even worse.

[tippexx]

Don't worry Bob, SWIMBO is Polish, so I know one or two things about Communist quotas. Like a Soviet factory charged with making sunglasses, it didn't really that the lenses were so dark and thick that no one could see out of them, as long as they produced the right number.

Cuba has it's faults of course it does. But unlike the 'old' Communist countries Cuba makes a premium product for a World market. I think they've gone their worst period, they're far from perfect yet, but with an Embargo end and outside help .... they WILL get better.

[Bob123]

My only issue with Cubans is draw, other things like cracks in wrapper in the bottom or spots on cigar - I dont care it will burn, but draw that is what matters. I had so far plugged or nearly pluged 1/100 NC in Cubans I am affraid this ratio is about 1/20

[Motormadj]

Wow. Some interesting posts going on in this thread.
I've always just thought the older the better really. But there's no way to tell in my opinion, as storage and the rolling on the day play a big part.
I always just hope for the best, give them a good rest and then smoke to test! Lol.

[Motormadj]

I'm a poet and I didn't even realize. Lol

[Tomothebuilder]

To borrow a quote from Ron Burgundy-that escalated quickly! Thanks for the info chaps, unfortunately I read far too much into reviews and opinions on this sort of stuff, it seems quality of late has much improved across the board!

[Motormadj]

To borrow a quote from Ron Burgundy-that escalated quickly! Thanks for the info chaps, unfortunately I read far too much into reviews and opinions on this sort of stuff, it seems quality of late has much improved across the board!