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1999 ? 2002. The sad, bad years?

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  • #31
    Well said Rocco. I agree between 1999-2002 the bland flavour's and poor production wiil haunt Habano for years to come.The flavours of the sixties/seventies thankfully are around again. But I wonder what will happen when 'Uncle Sam" places big orders -Stock up now gentlemen
    Cigars & Forums mean all things to all men !

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    • #32
      Late to post but I just saw this and will throw my tuppence in.
      There is no 'aged for 4 years' rule with habanos, particularly from the bleak years. Tobacco is cured before rolling, but they aren't aging cigars for us and the length of time it is cured will vary by marca and cigar, and even by years' productions.

      The bleak years are '99 and '00, not all the way to'02. I've never encountered those problems in many, many boxes of '01 and '02s, and I have a few from 2000 that didn't have issues but I wouldn't touch that year now as I think any left are going to be the dregs. The problem was due to increasing supply to meet the cigar boom demand resulting in using inferior tobacco and inexperienced rollers. This is why I bang on about fearing the lifting of the US embargo; when that huge market is opened up the quality will drop like a hot rock to meet that insatiable demand.

      Sadly 2002 was the year the discontinuations started in earnest. HSA got a taste for capitalism and found bigger profits in short-term gimmicks and limited editions than in keeping classics.

      There is no agreed upon definition of vintage. I tend to stock up as I smoke and most of what I like to smoke is 5-7 years old. I consider that, more or less, most cigars prime. Many do well with more age and I've got a few boxes from 98 that I'm continuing to let rest because they keep getting better but I still would hesitate to call that vintage. In my personal definition, I think vintage requires more than a decade of storing them yourself at what you think are ideal conditions. I don't think vendors store cigars in optimal conditions for aging, they are much cooler and much more humid because they are holding them to sell, not to age.
      What would Lemmy do?

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      • #33
        Be Cool!

        Originally posted by El Yanqui View Post
        This is why I bang on about fearing the lifting of the US embargo; when that huge market is opened up the quality will drop like a hot rock to meet that insatiable demand.
        Maybe, but I have a suspicion that most yanks that want Habanas are already getting them. And though demand might spike in the beginning out of curiosity, over time demand will likely settle back to it's current levels.

        Remember, the great land to the North has an abundance of fine non-Cubans to choose from.


        TJ, TJCoro
        sigpicVaya con Dios, Amigos! - don TJ and the Coros

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        • #34
          Originally posted by cbob View Post
          CA: Why don't you plant the old variety, the traditional Corojo?
          Robaina: I wish I could get my hands on those seeds!

          CA: The flavor was wonderful.
          Robaina: Yes, no doubt, and the traditional Criollo was the best filler tobacco around.

          Hiroshi: I wish we could use it.
          Robaina: Perhaps this year we could try.
          [FONT=Arial]
          Why would they not be able to get their hands on the traditional Corojo seeds any more?
          Last edited by Inst4nt; 08-07-2011, 10:54 AM.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Inst4nt View Post
            Why would they not be able to get their hands on the traditional Corojo seeds any more?

            I think they can, and do. But sun, soil, slope and rainfall all favour Cuba.
            If you want to, you can.
            And, if you can, you must!

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            • #36
              A little know puro fact!

              Originally posted by tippexx View Post
              I think they can, and do. But sun, soil, slope and rainfall all favour Cuba.
              Not to mention the traces of lithium in the soil that makes its way into the tobacco leaf. Ghelyon.gif


              TJ, TJCoro
              Last edited by TJCoro; 10-07-2011, 01:12 AM.
              sigpicVaya con Dios, Amigos! - don TJ and the Coros

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              • #37
                From mid 01-mid 2003 were IMHO the best cigars Cuba produced since 1996. I track down everything I can find from that period. They have aged tremendously

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                • #38
                  Wine for Water?

                  Originally posted by mcgoospot View Post
                  From mid 01-mid 2003 were IMHO the best cigars Cuba produced since 1996. I track down everything I can find from that period. They have aged tremendously
                  That's interesting, senor Mcgoo. Many consider the period "00 to mid "02" to be a time when the quality of Cuban puros was quite bad, some say because Cuba was rusing its product to market to take advantage of the so-called "Cigar Boom."

                  Don't know about that, but I do remember some poor quality puros during that period and the difference between puros and high-end NCs at that time was marginal, IMO.

                  It sounds like you are saying that after a decade or more rest, these are becoming decent sticks, no?


                  Perro, el Perro


                  Hey El P! I know don TJ has a few 2002 Bolivar Royal Coronas in his massive unit that are absolutely fabulous!
                  Last edited by TJCoro; 29-07-2014, 02:30 PM.
                  sigpicVaya con Dios, Amigos! - don TJ and the Coros

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by mcgoospot View Post
                    From mid 01-mid 2003 were IMHO the best cigars Cuba produced since 1996. I track down everything I can find from that period. They have aged tremendously
                    And the award for resurrecting a very old thread goes to Mr Magoo

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                    • #40
                      Higher Ground!

                      Originally posted by Stevieboy View Post
                      And the award for resurrecting a very old thread goes to Mr Magoo
                      Haha! Senor Kaamart would love it, if here hadn't graduated to a higher level!


                      Jay, Ray Jay
                      sigpicVaya con Dios, Amigos! - don TJ and the Coros

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                      • #41
                        Wish I'd known a while back...Dubai duty free is stock-full of 00/01 boxes - no-one touches them!

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                        • #42
                          Timely Information!

                          Originally posted by Deano View Post
                          Wish I'd known a while back...Dubai duty free is stock-full of 00/01 boxes - no-one touches them!

                          SNAP OUT OF IT, BOY! There's a reason no one buys 'em.

                          Although, I would have been tempted, depending on what they had.

                          El P
                          sigpicVaya con Dios, Amigos! - don TJ and the Coros

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                          • #43
                            I bought a fair few 01 & 02 stuff in Barcelona but as they're things like Sancho Panza & Rafael Gonzales that probably weren't part of the cigar boom brands (Partagas, Upmann, RyJ etc) I'm quite positive they'll be fine...I wouldn't but blind from those years EVER! I'd want them in my hands first

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                            • #44
                              Was a wide variety. Can't remember much now. There were a lot of Monte Especiales for instance but everyone I opened had mould. Obviously the guy in-the-know said they were plume, but looking at the leaf wrap it extended along and up the edge - which I've always been told is a sure sign of mould vs plume.

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                              • #45
                                I bought a box of 2002 Monte Esp 1s and they were nearly all like drum-sticks. The few that weren't needed constant relighting and burned unevenly. Avoid them like the plague Dean!

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