American Made Cuban Brands

[sheppsea]

That's the point I was trying to make Jeremy

Habanos feel that they have a strong case for Cohiba, so may continue to fight for the rights to that one even after the embargo is lifted, but don't feel they have as strong a claim to the others, so rather than risk a protracted court battle for them, they may just, as Tippex suggests, change the name, which will also mean they can access the american market quicker

[butternutsquashpie]

That's the point I was trying to make Jeremy

Lord almighty! I spent precious brain cells dealing with Marc's ' lentement' () and the point was already made!?!
well, I guess we agree. Great minds think alike, eh Sheepherder?

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[Simon Bolivar]

Hate to pick you up Marc but you have made an easily understood mistake as La Corona has a complicated history. La Corona brand dates from 1845: was discontinued in '79, revived in '89 & discontinued again in '99.
Here's my personal proof they are indeed a Pre' Rev Brand, see date written in box 1932, the oldest cigar I have smoked so far but have something older, waiting for Sept.La Corona.Belvederes.2012.12.SAM_0016.jpgLa Corona.Belvederes.2012.12.25.SAM_0146.jpgLa Corona.Belvederes.2012.12.25.SAM_0150.jpg

[butternutsquashpie]

ah yes! nice first hand pictures there Simon

also check out Mitch's auctions for some nice cigar porn. Some good La Coronas from '60s and '50s are on there right now too... DROOL.

[ValeTudoGuy]

Hate to pick you up Marc but you have made an easily understood mistake as La Corona has a complicated history. La Corona brand dates from 1845: was discontinued in '79, revived in '89 & discontinued again in '99.
Here's my personal proof they are indeed a Pre' Rev Brand, see date written in box 1932, the oldest cigar I have smoked so far but have something older, waiting for Sept.[ATTACH=CONFIG]17210[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]17209[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]17211[/ATTACH]

The info, I was pulling from a well known source..... Your evidence is conclusive though Simon! It shows that you can't always trust published and accepted sources!

[sheppsea]

The info, I was pulling from a well known source..... Your evidence is conclusive though Simon! It shows that you can't always trust published and accepted sources!

I think when the website says brands added since the revolution it doesn't mean brands didn't exist before the revolution - the description on La Corona page matches the dates Simon mentioned

Although it isn't as clear as it could be

[ValeTudoGuy]

I think when the website says brands added since the revolution it doesn't mean brands didn't exist before the revolution - the description on La Corona page matches the dates Simon mentioned - a few of the other brands listed in there were also established before the revolution

Although it isn't as clear as it could be

Fair point, I hadn't delved that far into it and had just taken it at face value.

[searsa1]

But just imagine if you were a Cuban director. Would you want your brands to change in order to accommodate some bullshit Yanks just because they're a tad more powerful?

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I see your point Butters. 65% of premium cigars produced in the world are consumed in the US. In 2006 the volume for "large" cigars world wide was about 5.8 billion. The question is how bullshit are you willing to go through to get some of that market share?

[butternutsquashpie]

The question is how bullshit are you willing to go through to get some of that market share?

well, that's a dangerous question, innit?

i just PRAY that the 2% chance of an amalgamation between HSA and General Cigar won't happen, then. Imagine if that happened........... oh my god. our hobby will be raised to rubble!

Honestly, these uncertainties makes me glad that the cigar lobby is happening. in other words, out of sheer cynicism and selfishness, i'm going to side with the embargo.
don't hate me!

[searsa1]

well, that's a dangerous question, innit?

i just PRAY that the 2% chance of an amalgamation between HSA and General Cigar won't happen, then. Imagine if that happened........... oh my god. our hobby will be raised to rubble!

Honestly, these uncertainties makes me glad that the cigar lobby is happening. in other words, out of sheer cynicism and selfishness, i'm going to side with the embargo.
don't hate me!

Not at all. There are serious questions here among those of us that are not casual (ie: once in a blue moon) cigar smokers what the end of the embargo will do to the current line of Habanos. Price increases are a given. From personal conversations I have had with people in the industry there is a definite hunger for Cuban tobacco. And I don't mean for an all Cuban puro either. The question is how much leaf are the Cubans willing to sell. It is also operating under the assumption there would still be a State monopoly on tobacco. If the whole Cuban tobacco production is sold to the highest bidder who knows what would happen.

[peanutpete]

well, that's a dangerous question, innit?

i just PRAY that the 2% chance of an amalgamation between HSA and General Cigar won't happen, then. Imagine if that happened........... oh my god. our hobby will be raised to rubble!

Honestly, these uncertainties makes me glad that the cigar lobby is happening. in other words, out of sheer cynicism andselfishness, i'm going to side with the embargo.
don't hate me!

your right it is selfish it is not only cigars that are effected by the embargo and while not all the fault of USA it keeps many many Cubans in poverty

I would give up cigars in a heart beat if it meant people had a better life over there and for some like you who keeps telling us that he goes regular I am surprised you would not, oh and life is to short to hate

[butternutsquashpie]

If the whole Cuban tobacco production is sold to the highest bidder who knows what would happen.

mmmmmmmmmm... yeah.
i just don't want to think about this, now. a full Cuban 'highest bidder' takeover could possibly mean the end to all the Marcas... naturally, it's unlikely. but there's always the 2% chance, eh?

[butternutsquashpie]

I would give up cigars in a heart beat if it meant people had a better life over there and for some like you who keeps telling us that he goes regular I am surprised you would not, oh and life is to short to hate

Pete,
you have to understand the scope of the argument. when i argue something like cigars, i do an [arguably] unfortunate bracketing off. in other words, discuss only cigars for the time being. i could've very well even included the bracket of the world economy and the social status of those rollers. but i tend to bracket all these off in order to discuss only the cigar side to the embargo...

please don't let that seem like i'm inhumane towards people who suffer from the embargo. it is another discussion meant for a more holistic view of the embargo. but if you wish to widen the scope, then i will side with you on that line of the embargo. out of sheer human nature, naturally.
however, when i discussed the 'selfish' nature, it was more talking about the fact that the Yanks aren't as accessible to the Cuban Cigars. not what it would do to the world economy, and specifically, the Cuban socialeconomic status

[searsa1]

your right it is selfish it is not only cigars that are effected by the embargo and while not all the fault of USA it keeps many many Cubans in poverty

I would give up cigars in a heart beat if it meant people had a better life over there and for some like you who keeps telling us that he goes regular I am surprised you would not, oh and life is to short to hate

Being in the US the reality is the embargo is a very unfortunate situation. It hurts Cuba while doing nothing to us. It should have ended many years ago and it does nothing more than make us seem petty. 99% of the population here do not care about it. We trade with Vietnam so that should tell you something. There is a small percentage of people in South Florida who keep the embargo in place. They have nothing to gain from the situation except hate and spite. Many of the folks that packed up and left during the 50's and 60's have little to no connection to the people that currently live in Cuba. While I agree life would be better for the average Cuban if the embargo is lifted I also have my doubts as if it will be the answer to all the problems that Cuba faces.

[butternutsquashpie]

While I agree life would be better for the average Cuban if the embargo is lifted I also have my doubts as if it will be the answer to all the problems that Cuba faces.

Alright... The epoch? haa been lifted. I'm up for discussing socioeconomic situations, too

The Cubans have a variety of untapped resources which include, but is not limited to, Nickel-Lithium mines, untapped petro due to unscouted land (guesses), sugar plantations from the days of Spanish Conquistadors, Cuban fishing goods that aren't accessible to the Yanks.
due to their lack of partners and government controlled industries, they leave most of their reserves untapped. Nickel (and therefore platinum, palladium, and other noble metals) reserves are left unscathed, petro reserves are unscouted, and sugar plantations are left running at minimal capacities. Oh and let's not forget about tourism!

Nickel Mines first:
Nickel is chemically similar to platinum and palladium: both more valuable to gold. They exist in the same veins along with Magnesium and Lithium. All of these (especially lithium with the battery boom) are valuable minerals with worth to EVERY electronic industry. Let alone the steel industry.
Lifting of the embargo means possible American industries and equipment for mining it out. But more effectively, it means a nation to actually sell it to other than China and Canada who already have their fill of Nickel mines. America, on the other hand, would love some development and cheap Metals.

Petro:
Not mentioned as widely because it hasn't been scouted yet. In other words, looking at the geographic placement of Cuba near the Gulf, there's a decent chance that Cuba has some undiscovered oil reserves it's sitting on. Besides, America is content with its Venezuelan oil and the *ahem* other reserves it has worldwide. Imagine dealing with oil reserves so close to the mainland... Need i say more?

Sugar:
Currently, the Yanks get most of their sugar from Brasil. Cuba need not produce because of the demand. Who would import huge amounts of Cuban Sugar when it's available all throughout the world? America would definitely buy Cuban sugar due to the proximity and ease. That's just economically sensible.

Tourism:
Forbidden fruit is finally available. Along with cigars, naturally. You should be able to guess how and why that'd REALLY benefit them, no?


A huge economical boom is possible if its closest trading partner opens its gates. Seeing this [now] huge gain for both parties, it's only logical to open the gates when you consider everything that can happen.
But of course, an antithesis can be posed that says American industries will simply start to annex all of Cuba's reserves, sucking them dry. But Cuban nationalisation may stop it. Or it may not. Political relations isn't my strong suit... Searsy, want to weigh in on that?

Benefits TO Cuba?
Basic commodities of life: Colgate toothpaste, Walmart shirts, Downy toiletries, FOOD. And probable economic stability.