Non-UK Retailers and Tax Evasion Discussions

[Deano]

Gibralta is interesting. H and F stock at pretty much low duty free prices. Lower mark-up for them?

Think this thread has gone off topic somewhat! But Gib pretty much sums it up as an example. It's all tax, thus why B&H and a Jack Daniels is a tenth of the price elsewhere too.

[monkey66]

Gibralta is interesting. H and F stock at pretty much low duty free prices. Lower mark-up for them?

[butternutsquashpie]

My question on that is if it's worth the EMS quantity of quality (Foxy, Ajay's, etc) for the importer's high charges.
Where else can you find Dip 1s, Bolivar Lonsdales, Hoyo Du Dauphin, etc readily shipped to your door? What other regional can commission such beautiful extra bands (JL Supremos, PL gold bands) with the quality of the leaf to match? How many other importers are over a century old?
Is the extra cost worth it, now?


Also, what about British overseas territory like Turks & Caicos/ Virgin islands? And Gibraltar?

Sent by the Enigma on BlackBerry.

[Sligub]

They probably aren't subject to the same minimum wage costs, plus warehouses are far cheaper to rent per sq.m than retail which also pays approx. ?300 per sq.m in rates compared to as little as ?50 sq.m for warehousing.

Don't get me wrong, that only makes for a small proportion of the UK mark up in price that we have to pay, but it's still there and has to be taken into account.

But have higher international postage costs that they absorb, don't get me wrong I don't lay much blame at the retailers door. The importer however

[Budgie Smuggler]

International export companies can still sell the boxes for 10-20% under Cuban prices, include shipping, and staff 3-4 warehouses.
At the same time still making enough money to be very successful.

Sent by the Enigma on BlackBerry.

They probably aren't subject to the same minimum wage costs, plus warehouses are far cheaper to rent per sq.m than retail which also pays approx. ?300 per sq.m in rates compared to as little as ?50 sq.m for warehousing.

Don't get me wrong, that only makes for a small proportion of the UK mark up in price that we have to pay, but it's still there and has to be taken into account.

[cigarmo]

International export companies can still sell the boxes for 10-20% under Cuban prices, include shipping, and staff 3-4 warehouses.
At the same time still making enough money to be very successful.

Sent by the Enigma on BlackBerry.

should you not be on a plane already?

[butternutsquashpie]

And that's before we factor in business rates, staffing costs, utilities etc.

International export companies can still sell the boxes for 10-20% under Cuban prices, include shipping, and staff 3-4 warehouses.
At the same time still making enough money to be very successful.

Sent by the Enigma on BlackBerry.

[Budgie Smuggler]

One area where do have to be fair to our Retailers is in the overhead costs Ross. Retail Freehold is very rare in the UK, and the rental cost per sq metre are much, much higher than in Europe or the USA ... and that isn't just London, that's all over.

And that's before we factor in business rates, staffing costs, utilities etc.

[Sligub]

One area where do have to be fair to our Retailers is in the overhead costs Ross. Retail Freehold is very rare in the UK, and the rental cost per sq metre are much, much higher than in Europe or the USA ... and that isn't just London, that's all over.

True Arf but most stores are more expensive than their respective website.

[tippexx]

As Arf says it's a free market as far as retail goes (h&f however have a monopoly that they will defend).

We can speak about tax structures till the cows come home as long as you don't mention overseas sources or avoiding tax.

The UK duty on cigars is just over ?200 per kg ( which is very high I agree) but a robusto weighs aprox 12g so the duty is around ?2.50. How does that explain the ?10-15 difference between here and Spain?

One area where do have to be fair to our Retailers is in the overhead costs Ross. Retail Freehold is very rare in the UK, and the rental cost per sq metre are much, much higher than in Europe or the USA ... and that isn't just London, that's all over.

[monkey66]

As for rules feel free to discuss the mark up in the UK. H and f have a monolopy and price as they wish. They mark up very significantly. No like, no buy. This is not a political movement for the right to cheap uk cigars ☺

The only thing we don't discuss is anything that could be construed as conspiracy to evade tax by HMRC. This is the price we pay to be the only public cigar forum in Europe (I think).

[monkey66]

Smoke em if you got em.

[TJCoro]

That's Special!

...and would instead proffer that the act of lighting said [Cohiba] cigar creates the special occasion.

Hmmm, I seem to remember hearing a line like this before....I think it was in the movie "SideWays!"

I agree with you chico that a top shelf puro can, in itself, create a so-called "special occasion," but there are also times when a high-end puro can be wasted in a moment of uncertanity. On these occassions, I often choose a NC as not to waste a fine puro.

So like senor VDG, I more often than not save my very best puros for those special occassions, such as when senor serious finally reinstitutes Comet Chat.

Perro, el Perro

[Sligub]

Interesting Ross, it's probably been covered before but is there a breakdown of a standard UK cigar costing?

I.E. What the retailer pays and what the consumer pays and what constitutes the difference?

As Arf says it's a free market as far as retail goes (h&f however have a monopoly that they will defend).

We can speak about tax structures till the cows come home as long as you don't mention overseas sources or avoiding tax.

The UK duty on cigars is just over ?200 per kg ( which is very high I agree) but a robusto weighs aprox 12g so the duty is around ?2.50. How does that explain the ?10-15 difference between here and Spain?

[SilentBOb]

A comparison I have noticed between two retailers suggests they don't fix/discuss prices. A box of ten Partie SD4's in is ?129 whilst in the other (both in Londonhas them for ?169. That is a massive difference for the consumer. The only reason I can think of this is that they both have different discounts from the supplier hence the price, they possibly both have the same margin but because one has a bigger discount from source they can pass this on.

Someone correct me if i have this completely arse about tit.